jcwit
member
Thanks, and when I bought the primers the intent was not to hoard, they were just so cheap I couldn't walk away. Sort of like going into an auto parts store and seeing Mobil 1 or Penzoil Platium for $ .50 cents a quart.
prove me wrong
- Thread starter Nicodemus38
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Some ammo is cheaper to load. I'm paying about .12 a round for .45 ACP (re-using brass I already have and 230 grain RNL bullets). The cheapest factory stuff here is about .42 a round if you buy it by the box.
That's $300 less PER CASE of ammo. And that's buying the cheapest stuff I can find. For that $300 I could buy a turret press and a set of dies...along with other extras. The next case I load is pure money saved.
The real equation though...what is your time worth? I don't mind spending some of my time reloading. With a good press like a Dillon 550 or 650, you could do 400 rounds per hour if you cranked on it. That's $300 in savings for a bit over 2 hours worth of work. Even if you went slower and took 3-4 hours, that's still quite a bit of money saved per hour spent. I don't know about all you guys, but I don't get paid $100 per hour to work my day job.
That's $300 less PER CASE of ammo. And that's buying the cheapest stuff I can find. For that $300 I could buy a turret press and a set of dies...along with other extras. The next case I load is pure money saved.
The real equation though...what is your time worth? I don't mind spending some of my time reloading. With a good press like a Dillon 550 or 650, you could do 400 rounds per hour if you cranked on it. That's $300 in savings for a bit over 2 hours worth of work. Even if you went slower and took 3-4 hours, that's still quite a bit of money saved per hour spent. I don't know about all you guys, but I don't get paid $100 per hour to work my day job.
mesinge2
Member
I think part of the ammo shortage is that more people are buying guns and getting CCLs more then any other time in history.
lobo9er
Member
jcwit wins this one
moooose102
Member
you also have to factor in that a certain percentage of the people out there are not competent enough to assemble ammunition without getting hurt either in the process, or in the proving of said ammo. it is not at all difficult to put to much of the wrong powder into a cartridge, and have catostophic effects. many others, simply do not want to bother, or have room, or can justify reloading. and that is fine, to each, his own. like others have said, it is not an ammo shortage, it is panic buying that is the trouble.
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sidibear
Member
I reload mainly for shooting at an indoor range which has restrictions on velocity, downloaded ammo cannot be bought here. I reload .45acp lswc for around $0.10 a round.
But when I shoot outdoors I use factory .45acp fmj which costs around $35 / 100, just buying the 230gr fmj bullets costs around $28 / 100 so its not worth the hassle of reloading, but hey, I gain more brass for the downloads.
I also load 7x57 for my Mauser which works out at around $45 / 100 compared with $175 / for factory so there is a significant saving even factoring in my own time.
But when I shoot outdoors I use factory .45acp fmj which costs around $35 / 100, just buying the 230gr fmj bullets costs around $28 / 100 so its not worth the hassle of reloading, but hey, I gain more brass for the downloads.
I also load 7x57 for my Mauser which works out at around $45 / 100 compared with $175 / for factory so there is a significant saving even factoring in my own time.
This reflects my experience as well.
If you are going to factor time and cost, as others mentioned, factor drive time and fuel to store or time searching and ordering on internet and subtract from loading time.
I can load 200 rds in the time it would take me to drive to the store and back from where I live. 200 rds is a range session. I'd rather load at home and go to the range, then drive to the store and back, then go to the range. time is same, quality of time for loading is far superior (to me).
At 15 mins to do an internet purchase...Ok, I could only load 50-100rds...but I have to wait for delivery as well...
Someone mentioned 8 hrs? 8 hrs of my time loading? Well, lets say 30 mins to set up & 30 mins worth of breaks (fill a bunch of primer tubes, confirm settings, charge etc...) 7 hrs @ 350/400/hr = 2450-2800 rds. Straight 8 hrs all loading = 2800-3200 rds.
I have a Dillon Square Deal B...not slow, but certainly not the fastest out there and very reasonably priced.
jcwit
member
I wasn't going to reply any more but I have just one more thing to say. Man alive are folks ever conserned about their time. Kick back, relax, enjoy life, your only going to do this once anyway.
Boy am I ever glad I'm retired and in good health, may not have the most money, or all the toys but have WAY more than most, and if you have your health every thing else is meaningless.
Don't believe me, try laying in a Hospital bed and have the Specialist come in and tell you you've got cancer with maybe a 20% chance of survival. Happened to me 10 years ago, and have been in remission for the last 8 years. Life is good, Praise the Lord!
Boy am I ever glad I'm retired and in good health, may not have the most money, or all the toys but have WAY more than most, and if you have your health every thing else is meaningless.
Don't believe me, try laying in a Hospital bed and have the Specialist come in and tell you you've got cancer with maybe a 20% chance of survival. Happened to me 10 years ago, and have been in remission for the last 8 years. Life is good, Praise the Lord!
woad_yurt
Member
If one buys all the stuff to reload, the price will drop per round the more rounds one reloads. Example: If you pay $300 for a totally equipped setup (w/components) and if you make 1 round, it'll be a $300 round. Make 300 rounds and they'd cost $1 each. Then, if you have to buy more bullets, you'd have to factor their in cost for succeeding rounds. It's a fairly complicated calculation. There is a formula for this type of calculation; I learned it in an economics class but can't remember what it is after all of these years. Is it called a logarithm? I forget....
Anyway, I do know that I can crank out hundreds of rounds and only have to buy the occasional box of bullets or whatever. The last 4 times I went to the range, I shot over 200 rounds of .38 SPL each time. I can afford the components for this much shooting but I definitely can't afford to spend factory ammo prices on 200 rounds every time I go shooting.
I make my own loading; no one offers it. Try finding a factory .38 SPL wadcutter loaded to any decent defense power levels. Factory loadings with this bullet are all powder puff target loads.
I use the wadcutters for defense as well as practice and since my practice and defense loads are the same, I have total consistency. If one shoots seriously, consistency is a big, big deal. Different ammo makes for different results. Shoot 5000 rounds out of the same gun with the same ammo and then try doing as well with different ammo. You'll notice the difference right away. I guess a very casual shooter may not notice much of a difference but, if you do get serious, every little change to your shooting routine will result in inconsistency (AKA: accuracy loss!)
PS: To those who say that saving money by reloading isn't worth the extra time involved, please inject "for me" into the sentence somewhere. If some of us can save even $20, it is worth the time. That's $20 that can go towards the utility bill. It all depends upon one's personal financial situation.
PPS: I also like having a coffee can full to the brim with ammo, full enough to make a little thump when I put it down. Much nicer than all of those little boxes with their shell holders messing up the place.
Anyway, I do know that I can crank out hundreds of rounds and only have to buy the occasional box of bullets or whatever. The last 4 times I went to the range, I shot over 200 rounds of .38 SPL each time. I can afford the components for this much shooting but I definitely can't afford to spend factory ammo prices on 200 rounds every time I go shooting.
I make my own loading; no one offers it. Try finding a factory .38 SPL wadcutter loaded to any decent defense power levels. Factory loadings with this bullet are all powder puff target loads.
I use the wadcutters for defense as well as practice and since my practice and defense loads are the same, I have total consistency. If one shoots seriously, consistency is a big, big deal. Different ammo makes for different results. Shoot 5000 rounds out of the same gun with the same ammo and then try doing as well with different ammo. You'll notice the difference right away. I guess a very casual shooter may not notice much of a difference but, if you do get serious, every little change to your shooting routine will result in inconsistency (AKA: accuracy loss!)
PS: To those who say that saving money by reloading isn't worth the extra time involved, please inject "for me" into the sentence somewhere. If some of us can save even $20, it is worth the time. That's $20 that can go towards the utility bill. It all depends upon one's personal financial situation.
PPS: I also like having a coffee can full to the brim with ammo, full enough to make a little thump when I put it down. Much nicer than all of those little boxes with their shell holders messing up the place.
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^^^^ Roger, the custom factor is handy as well. My 9mm practice loads are 124g FMJ at 1100 FPS. My defense load is either Speer 124g GD's at about 1150 FPS (standard) or 1250 FPS (+P).
So, for less than the cost of the cheapest 115g factory ammo, I get a 124g load that is very close to my carry load in power, but won't needlessly batter my guns or be pushing "max" load powder charges so I'm free not to worry about mixed brass etc.
So, for less than the cost of the cheapest 115g factory ammo, I get a 124g load that is very close to my carry load in power, but won't needlessly batter my guns or be pushing "max" load powder charges so I'm free not to worry about mixed brass etc.
Call me weird, but I gotta admit, I pretty much shoot so I have something to do in the garage on days when I can't go to the range. I probably enjoy reloading more than shooting anymore. If I didn't need empty brass I'd go the range even less than I do now.
Smokin Gator
Member
Jcwit. That worked out great for you. It just doesn't have anything to do with what someone can realistically load ammo for today. Cars aren't $3,000 apiece anymore. Houses aren't 15,000 apiece. People can expect to make more than a buck and a half and hour these days. Mark
jcwit
member
Wrong. First off I started working and never worked for the meger sum of $1.50. Started at $5.00 an hour at the ripe old age of 13. Almost 60 years ago.
New cars aren't $3000 any more thats for sure but the last newer car I bought was a little less than 3 years old and yes I bought it for $3000. My winter driver is older, 7 years old, less that 50,000 miles and got it for $1000. House I live in I purchased from my parents estate for $16,000 and I plan to stay here to the end.
Secret to all this is to keep an eye out for bargains, 3 days ago I was at Sinclare in Ft. Wayne, In. and got one of their $110 dollar arbor presses for $40.00. Maybe I get this from being a purchasing agent for most of my working life. Started at the age of 14, doing the purchasing for a Do-It-Best-Hardware before their was a HWI.
What someone can do realistically do is all relative to what you can purchase whatever for and how much money you can save at the time of purchase.
BTW, right now you can purchase nice homes 15 to 20 years old with all new Anderson windows in the $20,000 price range, and thats in a good neighborhood, in my area.
So sorry you live in Calif.
jcwit
member
Right on btaylor73, thats the main reason I think its foolish to count your time, unless of course you could spend MORE time doing it.
Smokin Gator
Member
Wrong. First off I started working and never worked for the meger sum of $1.50. Started at $5.00 an hour at the ripe old age of 13. Almost 60 years ago.
New cars aren't $3000 any more thats for sure but the last newer car I bought was a little less than 3 years old and yes I bought it for $3000. My winter driver is older, 7 years old, less that 50,000 miles and got it for $1000. House I live in I purchased from my parents estate for $16,000 and I plan to stay here to the end.
Secret to all this is to keep an eye out for bargains, 3 days ago I was at Sinclare in Ft. Wayne, In. and got one of their $110 dollar arbor presses for $40.00. Maybe I get this from being a purchasing agent for most of my working life. Started at the age of 14, doing the purchasing for a Do-It-Best-Hardware before their was a HWI.
What someone can do realistically do is all relative to what you can purchase whatever for and how much money you can save at the time of purchase.
BTW, right now you can purchase nice homes 15 to 20 years old with all new Anderson windows in the $20,000 price range, and thats in a good neighborhood, in my area.
So sorry you live in Calif.
Congratulations. $5.00 per hour 60 years ago would be some pretty darned good money. And is this in the same area that houses cost $20,000 today? Still, I noticed that you didn't mention anything about finding those components now at anywhere near what you paid for them when you got them. If someone asks what is the going rate for something these days, there is always someone who can answer that they got it for some rediculously low price. It still doesn't have anything to do with what someone can expect to pay when they go out to find it today. Sure, you might get lucky in the next couple of years if you wait to find a garage sale where they don't know what they have and have it priced at next to nothing. It also keeps the discussion honest when you make your comparisons apples to apples. Not what a new car would cost 40 years ago compared to buying a used one today.
New cars aren't $3000 any more thats for sure but the last newer car I bought was a little less than 3 years old and yes I bought it for $3000. My winter driver is older, 7 years old, less that 50,000 miles and got it for $1000. House I live in I purchased from my parents estate for $16,000 and I plan to stay here to the end.
Secret to all this is to keep an eye out for bargains, 3 days ago I was at Sinclare in Ft. Wayne, In. and got one of their $110 dollar arbor presses for $40.00. Maybe I get this from being a purchasing agent for most of my working life. Started at the age of 14, doing the purchasing for a Do-It-Best-Hardware before their was a HWI.
What someone can do realistically do is all relative to what you can purchase whatever for and how much money you can save at the time of purchase.
BTW, right now you can purchase nice homes 15 to 20 years old with all new Anderson windows in the $20,000 price range, and thats in a good neighborhood, in my area.
So sorry you live in Calif.
Congratulations. $5.00 per hour 60 years ago would be some pretty darned good money. And is this in the same area that houses cost $20,000 today? Still, I noticed that you didn't mention anything about finding those components now at anywhere near what you paid for them when you got them. If someone asks what is the going rate for something these days, there is always someone who can answer that they got it for some rediculously low price. It still doesn't have anything to do with what someone can expect to pay when they go out to find it today. Sure, you might get lucky in the next couple of years if you wait to find a garage sale where they don't know what they have and have it priced at next to nothing. It also keeps the discussion honest when you make your comparisons apples to apples. Not what a new car would cost 40 years ago compared to buying a used one today.
jcwit
member
As stated, search for the bargins. Never ever buy on impulse. Just about never ever pay full or marked price, always, always ask for a discount. Maybe I can't buy a box of primers today for $50.00 but believe me if I happened into a store/garage sale/ flea mkt, or whatever that had discounted primers the first thing I'd do is ask for a further discount. Business or even private individuals discounting products usually means they need the money and Cash is King.
Sure is, this great economy has hit this area hard but then we're not broke like California.
Sure is, this great economy has hit this area hard but then we're not broke like California.
rugerman
Member
I think some of you are missing the point. Reloading is a hobby like gun collecting, shooting, boats, cars, etc. Its not all about saving money (which you also do), but it is also about accuracy, and making something that you can't buy. Sure conponents are hard to come by right now, primers espically and most popular caliber bullets are scarce. But so is loaded ammo (tried to find any .380 lately) sure some places have lots of stuff but at really high prices. If it weren't for reloading I couldn't shoot my .380's and I bet you can't find 9mm ammo with the 95gr bullets that I shoot in my Keltec pf9. Sure it takes time, but how much time do you spent in a deer stand before you see and the shoot a deer. If you take into account your time you would quit hunting and go to the store and buy a steak and save money. but my local store doesn't sell deer meat so I'll keep reloading and hunting and write off my time.
jcwit
member
Right rugerman, just what does it take to get folks to understand this. I slept 8 houres last night, lets see $30.00 an hour that cost me $240.00 bucks.
evan price
Member
Even today, you can get into reloading at current prices and save a bundle. Heck, since factory ammo has gotten so expensive, it's even more a deal.
4 years ago I didn't bother to load 9mm. It was what, $5 a box? Not worth my time to save a dollar a box or two. Now that it's $15, $20 a box, I can load mine for under $2 a box and that's huge savings. And that's just 9mm, the "cheapest" centerfire cartridge out there right now. Toss in .45 Auto or God forbid something like .44 Magnum or .45 Colt, and you are talking about almost $50 a box. (I saw .44 Mag Winchester plain white box for $46 a box of 50 the other day).
Even at today's current prices, you can load .45 auto for under $12/100 if you shop carefully and buy in bulk to maximize your discounts. You can ship more than 1000 bullets in one flat rate box. When you buy something heavy like bullets, max out the weight in the box to spread the shipping cost over more pieces. Same goes for powder & primers. Max out that Haz-Mat with 25K primers and 16# of powder. Only buy the small lots at the gun shop to try out something. Once your load is developed, buy the bulkiest quantities you can to save the most money. Scrounge every piece of brass you can get your dirty fingers on without stealing from somebody else. Even if you don't shoot it, you can trade it off here in the forum trading post. Re-use the boxes and trays that factory ammo came in instead of buying MTM plastic boxes. Trade labor cleaning a range for the brass and lead you collect.
Be resourceful, and again, don't consider the cost of equipment in your per-load costs, usable equipment that's been taken care of has a decent resale value. It's an investment, not an expenditure. Or do you consider the depreciated value of your gun in each shot you fire?
4 years ago I didn't bother to load 9mm. It was what, $5 a box? Not worth my time to save a dollar a box or two. Now that it's $15, $20 a box, I can load mine for under $2 a box and that's huge savings. And that's just 9mm, the "cheapest" centerfire cartridge out there right now. Toss in .45 Auto or God forbid something like .44 Magnum or .45 Colt, and you are talking about almost $50 a box. (I saw .44 Mag Winchester plain white box for $46 a box of 50 the other day).
Even at today's current prices, you can load .45 auto for under $12/100 if you shop carefully and buy in bulk to maximize your discounts. You can ship more than 1000 bullets in one flat rate box. When you buy something heavy like bullets, max out the weight in the box to spread the shipping cost over more pieces. Same goes for powder & primers. Max out that Haz-Mat with 25K primers and 16# of powder. Only buy the small lots at the gun shop to try out something. Once your load is developed, buy the bulkiest quantities you can to save the most money. Scrounge every piece of brass you can get your dirty fingers on without stealing from somebody else. Even if you don't shoot it, you can trade it off here in the forum trading post. Re-use the boxes and trays that factory ammo came in instead of buying MTM plastic boxes. Trade labor cleaning a range for the brass and lead you collect.
Be resourceful, and again, don't consider the cost of equipment in your per-load costs, usable equipment that's been taken care of has a decent resale value. It's an investment, not an expenditure. Or do you consider the depreciated value of your gun in each shot you fire?
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