Quality SxS and O/U handling differences...

[ArmedBear]

I'm interested in opinions about SxS vs. O/U handling potential.

Note that I'm not talking about coach guns, cheap guns, heavy pigs or obese clunkers, but rather about sleek, well-designed, well-made break-actions.

After oneounceload piqued my interest, I finally got my hands on an AyA No. 2 28 Gauge double. Next to it was a new Fausti Dea, also a 28, as seen on the latest AR cover. Both felt really, really good. One would expect that of a production gun for 4 bills. But one would expect that of a $4000 O/U, also. The Silver Pigeons feel great at half that, even, and in 28 they can feel very much like a 28 Gauge SxS.

So... In your experience and opinion (bias welcome!), what is the real intrinsic difference between a stack barrel and a double, when it comes to handling potential?

Is the SxS really about tradition, and it so happens that some of the finest guns are SxS shotguns?

If money is no object, and setting aside tradition, how does the O/U compare with the SxS? James Purdey and Sons makes both, but Americans tend to think of Purdeys as SxS shotguns, I think...

 

[oneounceload]

AB - you've handled a #2 in 28 and you're STILL unsure???...
Quality guns in either persuasion will have that "feel". Each gun is different and different to each person. What you like, I might not and vice versa. I have a friend who is a respected writer about guns and as a result, I sometimes get to handle and shoot these guns...........and FWIW, his opinions and mine regarding certain guns seem to jive with each other.

I can say this - a CZ 28, vs. an AyA 28, vs. a Beretta 686, vs. a Perazzi MX-28, vs, a SKB 385 are as varied as the scenery between the Idaho mountains, the Kansas plains and the Florida Keys. (Based on my handling and shooting of them)

Some feel real good........and some just feel perfect.......that is what makes it such a personal experience...

My personal preference is currently towards an O/U for one BIG reason....I'm a LH shooter, and finding a LH SxS that FITS me is something I'm still looking for

Adding: - differences can really also depend on forearm....a splinter vs. beaver tail, vs. O/U can each feel different in your hand..........a straight grip, vs. semi pistol, vs. pistol....combine them all and you see the variances

Then there's a raised rib. equal rib and swamped rib........

PERMUTATIONS ABOUND!.........................

 

[Virginian]

Man, this is like trying to explain why you like blue better than green, or brunettes better than blondes. It's a just because kind of thing. I love side by sides and cannot abide over and unders, except for one little Beretta 28 gauge many moons ago. To me they are much svelter.

 

[Maverick223]

I am by no means an expert on shotguns, but I have fired a few and my conclusions are that the SxS has a better feel and the reloading cycle is quicker and easier. O/U shotguns are generally a bit more accurate and are more suitable for hunting foul and/or skeet. I find the SxS shotguns to be more aesthetically pleasing, but that is very subjective.

 

[ricklin]

Both are great!

I enjoy a SxS in the field. Been shooting my first O/U for clays, and def. prefer it for breaking targets.

Don't know which way I'll go for my next hunting opportunity, I like both.

I tried to like an 1100, I really did. I have gotten too used to having my choice of chokes. I'll stay with doubles.

 

[Two Cold Soakers]

Fact - OUs need more legroom to open, that is, they require a longer throw arc to get lower tube clear of the breechface.

I shoot the Churchill method. A well balanced SxS just works for me. By well balanced I mean in 12ga - 6lb-9oz with 28" bbls @ a little over 3 pounds.
Any AyA will be well balanced.
Does 4K get you a fitted gun?
That may make all the difference.

The rest is blathering opinion:

If I was gunning to move into the competitive ranks of clays shooting, like ASCA Class B, A ,AA I'd get an Italian OU. Single trigger. No questions.

There is no advantage in shooting a SxS premounted. The practice is tantamount to self flagellation.

But for feathers and pure enjoyment at the range, I shoot a sxs, from low gun.

 

[wgp]

I have Ithaca-SKBs in both O/U and S/S. I find myself shooting (hunting) the O/Us much more, but can't put a definite reason on it. The foreend on the O/U will be considerably narrower and it might feel better to you. I don't think I shoot either one better than the other.

 

[oneounceload]

The foreend on the O/U will be considerably narrower and it might feel better to you. I don't think I shoot either one better than the other.

On an SKB, that is correct because all of their guns had the beavertail type forearm - which is great to keep your hands of of hot barrels for prolonged shooting, but, IMO, it makes the gun unbalanced and just doesn't look right to me.

A splinter forearm's only job is to hold the barrels on - you hold the barrels with a full arm and point it at the bird. They make a spring-steel, leather covered device to help your hands, I prefer a good leather glove.

 

[ArmedBear]

all of their guns had the beavertail type forearm

With a capital B!

That touches on what I am talking about. As you said, oneounceload, there are many, many variables.

I just wonder whether there are characteristics that are simply unattainable with anything but SxS barrels, or if what we think of as the feel of a good SxS has more to do with all those other variables than the barrel orientation. Comparing similar guns at similar price points, from the same manufacturers, with the same fabrication facilities and design philosophies, I have to wonder.

This Beretta (subgauge SP V -- probably similar to what The Virginian liked years back)

might "feel like a side-by-side" more than this one (471 Silverhawk PG)

Either way, Berettas at the same price point are designed and built by the same people, using the same fabrication methods, with similar geometry, and to me, they feel similar. That's not as true of Franchis, but their designs are not as similar. Ditto for the Faustis I have fiddled with, but I haven't seen any new Fausti USA stuff other than the 28 Gauge Dea.

With the SKBs, at least in 20 Gauge where the SxS is heavier and has a wider foreend than the O/U, and the buttstock design is the same, I think the O/U does "feel more like a SxS."

What brought these thoughts on? My only SxS didn't go hunting this year at all, whereas a couple of O/Us (the only ones I owned during the 2009 season) did, often and successfully. Obviously, I don't hunt birds "high gun" either, and if the O/Us didn't shoulder and point well, I wouldn't have wanted to use them.

But... I have been wondering about the potential of the designs, not just the design decisions made by gunmakers, that can lead to all sorts of results.

 

[oneounceload]

dupe post

A SxS does have the ability to be reloaded quicker due to a shorter opening radius - especially helpful on driven-type shoots where the birds are coming fast and in droves. There is the double trigger scenario - available on both types of guns, but more prevalent on the SxS - again, for ME, being LH, unless I can get the triggers reversed, I prefer a single trigger. So up until the head of the stock, there isn't too much of a difference. From the head forward, the depth of the breech, the alignment of the barrels, the type of rib employed can make a deal of difference. Since most of MY shotgunning is primarily clay targets, where my guns have decent ribs and shoot about 60/40, I prefer a slightly raised rib on my SxS. Otherwise, SxS's are typically meant to shoot flat and with a swamped rib, you have to cover the target as you pull the trigger, something that I, as a target shooter, have a hard time doing.

In your pics above, I agree that the O/U would be more akin to a lithe SxS than the Silverhawk - I think the English grip would be a factor in thinking that way.

One of these days I'm going to convince the wife that a trip to Eibar would be fun......!

 

[ArmedBear]

Go for the shotguns, stay for the Basque food!

 

[SwampWolf]

I like both formats but prefer a sxs for my upland shooting (grouse and woodcock). However, I only like a sxs chambered in a 20 gauge frame or smaller-side by side twelves seem too "fat" for me (just a personal bias). Too, I've never quite understood why, but you don't see many serious trap or skeet shooters using a sxs.
When shopping for a quality double barrel, don't make the mistake of over-looking Merkel's offerings. I love my Model 147 EL, 3 inch chambered twenty; weighing 5 3/4 pounds, with straight stock, splinter fore-end and double triggers. And, no, I don't shoot many three inchers through this gun ...though I do like having the option of doing so if I ever (not likely) wanted to.

 

[interlock]

i like both. I have a spanish s b s which looks nice, feels nice.... but i cant hit anything with. I also have a miroku mk70 gd3 which looks good, feels good (but 2lb heavier) and i can hit stuff with.
I find the o/u is more pointable but the sxs quicker handling. there are some very, very nice over and unders out there from some of the best makers, boss, holland and holland and purdey.
I think fit is what it is all about. If you can get one to fit you will be able to shoot it.

 

[huntershooter]

I shoot SXS's in the field/hunting (AYA #1's in 20 and 12 ga.)
O/U are my preference for target and (some) Dove shooting (Beretta).

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I've never fired much less hunted w/an o/u so can't say except I have carried a pump (remmy) hunting some and I prefer my sxs over it. I have 2 sxs one with i/c right bbl, mod left bbl and the other mod right and full left choke.