Question about IMR-4227

[Hooda Thunkit]

This is the last manual from IMR to give load data for IMR 4227 in most major rifle calibers. http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/IMR/IMRHandloadersGuide.pdf It is from May 2003.

Perusing this data set, I see data given for 44 Mag with 3031 powder. I don't remember ever seeing that before. (ETA: page 50)

Even more strange, it shows data for 44 Mag with 4198, past 4895, and on through to 4831. Interesting to see how the pressure and velocity drops off with each progressively slower powder.

Although I have heard of folks trying 4895 in 44 Mag, I never even thought about 4350 or 4831.

 

[sfl_gunner]

Thanks Flinstone and Zorg. I now have some recipients to try with IMR 4227. I know these manuals are older. I wonder why they no longer list any of this info if the powder hasn’t changed over the years.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Oh probably like Iacocca when he shut down making OEM parts for then-reliable Pentastar land barges and muscle cars while pushing the K-cars on the US motoring public: "If we keep making parts for our older vehicles nobody will buy our newer vehicles!" The minivan pulled them out of that genius business plan.

I'm not comparing the Enduron powders to K-cars. I can't think of a different rationale though unless maybe there's something more to the story with discontinuing Australian made H4227 & IMR 4227 that's not seen by outsiders like customers. They still keep load data for Winchester Supreme 780 on their website and that hasn't been manufactured period for a while now.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I just looked up 30-30 data in my Hodgdon #25 (copyright 1986). They list both H4227 (under Hodgdon powder) and IMR 4227 (under DuPont powder). They list exactly the same loads in both sections for the same bullets; from 100 gr all the way to 170 gr.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I have read (unverified) from various internet sources that the basic recipe for both variants is the same. It is said that the only real difference is H4227 powder had graphite added to color the powder black, and that the difference in load data for various manuals was really no different than lot number differences like H110 and Win 296. I’ve also read that Hodgdon regularly bought lots of IMR 4227 and repackaged it as H4227. Keep in mind that this is all second and third hand information, but the load data I posted above seems to suggest it may be the case.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I looked out of curiosity, there's also some IMR 4227 data in the Lyman manuals in pdf form at the more general web link in my first post in this thread.

I have plenty of rifle powders, but few that are really suitable for higher power handgun cartridges especially other than H110 and my access to purchase even more restricted. Ironically Cabela's & Bass Pro Shops has been my primary source for primers & powders over the last month using free ship-to-store. Before that, my visits to those stores was limited to one since 2007, to pick up & transfer a preowned rifle through the Cabela's Gun Library back in February before everything changed dramatically.

Graphite is primarily added to improve flow characteristics and decrease static electricity potential AFAIK, but that's not even worth $0.02 - I've never drawn a paycheck by formulating smokeless powders.

I haven't yet broken the seal on the Manufactured in Canada container of IMR 4227 I picked up earlier this week. I set a mental reminder to take photos of the contents when I do so.

 

[Archie]

My personal suspicion is 4227 will not propel 'larger' caliber bullets as fast as is widely desired. The Lyman #45 (copyright 1970) has 4227 loads shown for .22 Hornet, .218 Bee and no other rifle loads. (I didn't look at pistol loads.) Other than for cast bullet loads, it doesn't seem to serve a major purpose as a rifle powder.

 

[sfl_gunner]

I t

Oh probably like Iacocca when he shut down making OEM parts for then-reliable Pentastar land barges and muscle cars while pushing the K-cars on the US motoring public: "If we keep making parts for our older vehicles nobody will buy our newer vehicles!" The minivan pulled them out of that genius business plan.

I'm not comparing the Enduron powders to K-cars. I can't think of a different rationale though unless maybe there's something more to the story with discontinuing Australian made H4227 & IMR 4227 that's not seen by outsiders like customers. They still keep load data for Winchester Supreme 780 on their website and that hasn't been manufactured period for a while now.

Maybe it is a strategy to keep people from consolidating powders. If you don’t tell people the powder can be used for multiple cartridges people will never know.