Question on California Used PPT Market

[Sven]

For the time being (until the 2006-7 ban created by SB489) I can buy most handguns not on "The List" of approved firearms, as long as they are purchased from a private party inside California, through an FFL. This market is very scarce and prices are extraordinary - KelTec P32s regularly fetch $400+, for example, where they cost $150-250 anywhere else.

My question is: how does California know that the handgun already existed inside the State?

I occasionally see rifles/shotguns for sale that say 'no papers', meaning, this gun pre-dates the requirement of registration. Was there a time way back when when CA required everyone to register all handguns? I'm thinking about these really old 1911s I've seen from 1917... are they "on the books", or what's the deal here?

-s

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

'My question is: how does California know that the handgun already existed inside the State?'

Quick answer; they don't.

HYPOTHETICAL THEORY FOLLOWS: If you could get the firearm into the state somehow, you could just submit a 'Voluntary Firearms Registration’ form to the Cal DOJ (can’t find the link right now, but you can download a PDF of the form), send it in with $14 and you’re good to go. The Voluntary Reg Form was put together for people that have firearms they bought privately before ’91 when it was legal to do so. This gives the purchaser a chance to put the firearm in his/hers names. Other reason for the form was inherited firearms. If you inherit a firearm, again this gives you an opportunity to get it in your name. Or say your parents give you a gun. Same deal.

 

[Pilgrim]

I occasionally see rifles/shotguns for sale that say 'no papers', meaning, this gun pre-dates the requirement of registration. Was there a time way back when when CA required everyone to register all handguns? I'm thinking about these really old 1911s I've seen from 1917... are they "on the books", or what's the deal here?

Long guns are not "registered" in California even though the buyer must submit to a background check through a FFL dealer. When a dealer sells a long gun, the make, model number, and serial numbers are not recorded with the state as are handguns. That information is recorded on the Form 4473.

I suppose what the sellers are saying is the original Form 4473 for that weapon does not have their name on it.

Pilgrim

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Found the link...

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

 

[Telperion]

Are handguns truly "registered" in California? I thought the DROS forms were sort of a state version of the 4473 forms, and the only registration requirement was for new residents moving in with guns and for scary-looking rifles.

 

[EOD Guy]

re handguns truly "registered" in California? I thought the DROS forms were sort of a state version of the 4473 forms, and the only registration requirement was for new residents moving in with guns and for scary-looking rifles.

Handguns are, in fact, registered with the California Department of Justice and a list is maintained. You can request a list of firearms registered to you by writing to the DOJ.

 

[Telperion]

Hmm, so can I request the DOJ to deregister them once I free the People's Republic?

 

[EOD Guy]

Hmm, so can I request the DOJ to deregister them once I free the People's Republic?

You can if you no longer own them. There is a "Firearms no Longer in Possession" form that you submit. I'm not sure about when you move from the state. In either case, I'm sure that they keep the information on file and would know that the firearms were registered to you at one time.

 

[Kevlarman]

I'm not saying I'd do this, but let's sayy you're out hunting/fishing and all your guns got dropped overboard and were impossible to salvage. Would the DOJ then unregister the firearms from you? Would it mean that, in the future, the JBT won't know that you own any guns?

 

[bountyhunter]

My question is: how does California know that the handgun already existed inside the State?

Depends on the gun. I have an old SW model 10 made in the 60's my dad gave me after he bought it at a gunshow (legal then). It is not "registered", and I could legally sell it. The gun is old enough that the state could not prove I obtained it either legally or illegally.

You could smuggle such older guns into the state, claim they were family heirlooms and sell them. It's a felony if you get caught.

Where you would get caught immediately is if you tried to PPT sell a gun you claimed to legally own in kali and they find out from the serial number it was recently manufactured but there is no paperwork on it here in kali. that would mean somebody along the way did something illegal or else the gun would have be registered here.

 

[Carnitas]

So if you have a relative in another state that buys some new production pistol, decides they dont like it and give it to you. Can you just submit the voluntary registration paperwork and be in the good graces?