regarding less lethal firearms, legality

[sonier]

Alright i have been thinking about this, Police are allowed to use non lethal weapons on people, riots etc. i agree with this i have no issue here, even though some of the weapons kill people accidently. Why is it, that if a civilian uses any non lethal weapon police do, and on a police officer it is considered a lethal weapon?
non lethal weapons too me, mean beanbags rubber slugs/buckshot stun guns

I know there is no need to use any weapon on a officer, but its about equal rights. Also do police officers have special training? Im just curious if anyone can find any actual laws on this.

 

[highorder]

Your title speaks of less lethal weapons.

Your post speaks (incorrectly) of non-lethal weapons, used against police officers?

I see a disconnect. Assaulting an officer (anyone?) with a (less) lethal weapon is a serious crime.

Less lethal weapons are lethal weapons, period.

 

[mljdeckard]

Every officer who carried sprays or electrical weapons must certify with them, meaning, they have to get zapped with it. It is mostly so that the officer understands how it works so they will have greater faith in them.

I THINK, police carrying these 'less lethal' devices has less to do with being humane and more to do with covering the agency's butt, letting them say that they tried something else BEFORE they shot someone. Having said that, I don't have a problem with police using them in the legitimate escalation of force. I have a BIG problem with police using them to force compliance when their life and limb was not in clear danger.

If I thought these weapons were as effective as a gun, I would stop carrying a gun. They aren't. Using 'less lethal' devices fits into the theory of 'escalation of force', meaning, you use the level of force appropriate to the danger being posed to you. You don't shoot someone because they shoved you. I prefer to scrap escalation, and only rely on deadly force, and only when I have legitimate fear of serious bodily injury or death. That in and of itself is already complicated enough.

Who said that id citizens use these items they are considered lethal? If a citizen used a taser on a cop, it would be aggravated assault, not assault with a deadly weapon.

 

[TexasRifleman]

non lethal weapons too me, mean beanbags rubber slugs/buckshot stun guns

2 things. First, there really isn't "non-lethal" there is "less than lethal".

Secondly, for non LE, any use of a firearm is deadly force, regardless of the projectile. That's pretty clearly defined in most penal codes.

 

[sonier]

alright im confused,
MJdecker said this

"Who said that id citizens use these items they are considered lethal? If a citizen used a taser on a cop, it would be aggravated assault, not assault with a deadly weapon"
texas rifleman said this as well

"Secondly, for non LE, any use of a firearm is deadly force, regardless of the projectile. That's pretty clearly defined in most penal code"

that seems like two opposites here too me, im just trying to clear up a law in my head. Its nice to know though that police officers have had training too a degree rather than giving these less lethal weapons to gunho guys who are trigger happy and not so well trained.
Ive always been under impression that any weapon used against anyone that shoots a projectile is a deadly weapon, so im assuming this would mean a deadly weapon charge against whoever uses it on someone.

 

[highorder]

The replicant clearly said "taser" not a projectile weapon per se.

If a citizen used a taser on a cop, it would be aggravated assault, not assault with a deadly weapon.

This is probably the case 90% of the time. The rest is a crap shoot.

im just trying to clear up a law in my head.

What's unclear? Don't shoot, nay, don't point anything at a cop!

 

[sonier]

alright that cleared things up better thanks, highorder. dont wrry i respect police officers a LOT just curious bout the law. one of these things i just wanted to understand.
last question can anyone post some links ot laws regarding this? or maybe a good site i can find these laws and research my self, thankyou

 

[mljdeckard]

The law is different in every state.

 

[TexasRifleman]

last question can anyone post some links ot laws regarding this? or maybe a good site i can find these laws and research my self, thankyou

Every state has different laws. But in the end, every state has different laws for "regular" people and LE in the performance of their duties.

A cop pointing a gun at a suspect is not use of deadly force in any state that I know of, but many states consider it deadly force for you or I to point a gun at someone.

Cops, when on duty, are simply a different class of citizen. There's nothing wrong with that, they pretty much HAVE to be to do their job. In your OP you talk about "equal rights" but they are not and won't ever be equal.

 

[sonier]

well i dont belive in that rlly but this subject can turn into a very radical debate, so ill keep my views and opinions to myself.
Can anyone find any sites that would have a list of laws for near every state, if there isnt maybe a colorado gun law book i can read up online would be nice.
thankyou

 

[TexasRifleman]

well i dont belive in that rlly but this subject can turn into a very radical debate,

Well, it's been in front of courts all over the country for many years and agree with it or not it's pretty much settled law.

 

[highorder]

Can anyone find any sites that would have a list of laws for near every state, if there isnt maybe a colorado gun law book i can read up online would be nice.

Sure!

Try this

 

[mljdeckard]

^^Tee hee hee.

 

[Justin_az282]

Ok sorry, Zombie thread revival.

The OP was a little off the mark but recently I have been curious about these issues also. Looking at all the current civil unrest around the globe, one begins to wonder how such things would play out in the US. Recently in Greece, protestors threw moltov cocktails at a line of riot police protecting the parliment building and they responded by lobbing tear gas.

With the police escalating their use of less lethal weapons like the LRAD and the availability for the public to purchase rubber bullets, smoke flares and such, its not hard to imagine that some idiot is going to use them against riot police eventually.

LEOs? How would you respond to such an threat? Deadly force or LL? I suspect a person walking around at a demonsration with a flare launcher or 12-guage would be arrested or bean-bagged fairly quickly.

Disclaimer: I do not, nor have I ever, advocated violence against any Law Enforcement Officer. This post is mearly a discussion of world events.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

non lethal weapons too me, mean beanbags rubber slugs/buckshot stun guns

Hit someone in the head or directly over the heart with one of those rubber slugs fired from a shotgun and report back on its supposed non-lethality.

 

[Fred in Wisc]

First, lots of respect to those who elect to serve in public safety.

An assault upon a police officer with a "less lethal" incapacitating weapon would offer the attacker access to the lethal weapon on the officer's belt if he is incapacitated. I would expect that an officer in such a scenario would justifiably respond with deadly force. His life is on the line, and you can bet he intends to go home to his family after that shift.

As someone else said earlier, the best way to avoid getting shot by the police is not to do stupid things like pointing guns at them.

 

[brickeyee]

Hit someone in the head or directly over the heart with one of those rubber slugs fired from a shotgun and report back on its supposed non-lethality.

A girl in Boston was killed by a pepper ball.

It struck her eye and penetrated into her brain.

http://www.acep.org/content.aspx?id=31868

Until a guided munition capable of hitting humans in a 'safe' manner can be devised, all these things remain 'less lethal' and NOT non-lethal.