Reloading 9mm on a single stage...

[1911user]

Reloading 9mm on a single stage...

sounds like torture and would convince me to take up another hobby. Especially if I shot more than a box or 2 of ammo per month considering the price of 9mm plinking ammo. Unless, of course, you REALLY like reloading, then have fun. I mostly reload to lower the cost of ammo and a progressive press saves time for something else.

I know in my case that I did severely curtail shooting for about 3 years because I hated loading on a lee turret press (effectively a single stage) and didn't understand the wisdom of spending money for a progressive setup. I finally saw the light, spent some money, then started having fun while shooting again.

 

[WayneConrad]

All the loading manuals stated that 4 grains of Unique is the max load for a 121 grain lead conical.

That seems low. According to my books, 4.0gr of Unique is below or at the starting load for that bullet. Here's what I found looking in my loading manuals for L-CN around 121 gr:

Lyman: L-CN 121, oal 1.110"
starting: 4.3gr, 940 fps, 21,000 c.u.p.
max: 5.3 gr, 1135 fps, 31,000 c.u.p.

RCBS: L-CN 124, oal 1.150"
starting: 4.7 gr, fps 1083
max: 5.2 gr, 1166 fps

And for non-conical lead bullets of about that weight:

Hornady: LRN 124, oal 1.090"
starting: 4.0 gr, 900 fps
max: 5.0 gr, 1100 fps

Speer: L-RN 125, oal 1.130"
starting: 4.1 gr, 911 fps
max: 4.5 gr, 1007 fps

Aliant: L 125, oal 1.150"
max: 5.0, 1165 fps, 29,400 psi

Warning: Beware of typos. Don't use these loads unless you check with an original manual to make sure they're correct.

 

[robertbank]

4 gr of Unique will just make IPSC PF. In my guns that load runs on avg. 1050 fps and is very light using a 125 gr LRN boolit. 4.7 gr of Unique is my go to load for this powder and boolit.

Take Care

 

[armoredman]

I guess there are two differant kinds of people, those who reload for the fun relaxing productive hobby it is, and those who reload to save money. 95% of my equipment was free, so I already saved my money, and my handloads are more accurate than many factory rounds I have tried.
The bottom line is, if you are doing it as a hobby, and it seems more like work than fun, buy a progressive. Faster, easier, less "supervision" of each round, kinda like factory ammo. Someday I will probably get a Dillon 650, but for now, I am having fun with my single stage. In fact, I think I'll go load up another 100 Hornady 124gr XTPs for next weekend...

 

[robertbank]

armoredman

Make that three kinds of people. The third type are those who own a progressive press, enjoy their reloading hobby, produce ammunition that outperforms factory and who can use their presses as single stage if they choose to. I would love to have my old rockchucker back but I don't load enough rifle ammo to warrant getting another and my Dillon 550 works just fine as a single/multi stage if I choose to weigh each load then use stations 3 & 4 progressively. I find this much faster than the old block method I used when loading on a single stage. But for the amount of pistol shooting I do I would never leave my bench reloading on a single stage. Just takes to long. For guys who load small volumes of rounds a single stage works perfectly. For those who load a lot of rounds per week a single stage will do but you have to have the time.

Take Care

 

[Sam Adams]

I have a single-stage press as well (for now; I'll probably get the Lee Turret Press sometime this year). Anyway, here's what I do:

1) Tumble brass upon returning from the range (including range pick-ups). I do this with a mixture of about 2/3 walnut for cleaning and 1/3 corn for polishing. I do this for 3-4 hours. I don't count the time for this, since I can do about 600 9mm and 450 .45 cases in about 2-3 minutes - to dump them in, then pour in the media, then flick the switch, then come back and separate the media from the cases.

2) Deprime and size. I do this in batches. For 9mm and .45, which I shoot more than anything else, I'll wait until I've got several hundred. I'll oftentimes do this on a Lee handpress, because I can do it inside while watching TV (esp. my wife's crappy tear-jerker chick flicks on Lifetime, when I have no desire to pay attention). I can do about 8-10/minute, if I really want to do it quickly. I don't lube, as my dies are carbide. For 1,000 cases, this will take 100-125 minutes.

3) Bell the cases - this can also be done on the handpress. Similar to the deprime & size function, I can do about 10/minute. Time: 100 minutes.

4) Priming - I use a Lee Handprime tool. This is pretty quick, 12-15/minute. Time: 67-83 minutes.

I will then stick the sized, belled and primed cases in a container (currently a pretzel barrel with a screw top, good for approx. 2,000 9mm and 1,500 .45), to wait for loading powder and bullets.

5) Loading powder and seating bullets - I do this whenever I've got the time (usually a couple of hours, to maximize efficiency). I will load all of the powder in 50 cases in a reloading tray, then load the bullets and put the loaded ammo in one of the plastic trays you find inside factory ammo boxes (I've got a big box full of them for various calibers - no need to buy those plastic ammo boxes from MTM or whomever). I also measure EVERY round for COAL, and either pull out those which are too short or reseat for those which are too long. Time: powder loading (once you've got your powder dispenser calibrated) 5 minutes per 50, or 100 minutes for 1,000. Seating the bullets takes about 10 minutes per 50 (the measuring slows me down, but the peace of mind is worth it), or 200 minutes for 1,000.

All together, to load 1,000 rounds probably takes about 600 minutes. Yeah, 10 hours. It'll save you a few bucks per 100 rounds for the 9mm (1000 cheap FMJs will cost about $0.04-$0.045 each, the primers are $0.02 each and the powder is under $0.01/round, for a total of about $0.075/round, which gives you a savings of about $4 per 100), but if this was your only use for the press I'd say forget it. Your time probably isn't worth it. Of course, for me the reloading is also about accuracy and cheap therapy (its usually very relaxing, unless I screw up a bunch of rounds), so the dollar savings is not all that there is to consider. For .45, .38s and virtually all rifle rounds, your dollar savings will be considerably higher (as an example, on .45s I can produce rounds for roughly $0.10 each, compared to twice that for Winchester White Box at Chinamart).

I'd do the reloading of the 9mm if I were you ('cuz I do it myself), as a means of making the press pay for itself. Once you've loaded about 600-700 rounds, the dies will have been paid for, and everything after that is gravy. More than anything, though, it depends on what kind of time you have to devote to it. If you're like me and you use otherwise non-productive time to do the basic tasks (deprime/size, belling and priming) so that the actual time out of your life to make the ammo is far less.

 

[Sam Adams]

Tomekeuro 85

3. 2 of my friends are buying the same beretta as me, so I can reload 9mm for them. One friend will also have an AR like mine, so I can do .223 for him.

I wouldn't load for anyone else, nor allow them to reload for me. If you make a mistake and they are injured or killed, you'll never forgive yourself (and, of course, there's the legal liability element, but it is secondary to me). Likewise, if you're injured or killed, you friends won't (if they're really friends) forgive themselves - and that's probably not the legacy you want for yourself.

Let them use your equipment - teach them, even let them use some of your supplies for a session or 2...but don't load for them. Heck, it is an enjoyable hobby, you can save money and make more accurate ammo for yourself - maybe they'll get into it as well. Then, between all of you, if one of you messes up a die or runs out of powder or other components, you can share or buy from each other without missing range time waiting for the broken/missing things to be delivered.

 

[callgood]

Last WWB I picked up two weeks ago was 12.85/100

I reload 9mm on a Forster CoAx.

124 grain Gold Dots- no brainer, I save $, haven't calculated how much.

Practice ammo is 124 grain Precision Bullets. 3500 for 145 or so. 4.15 cents.
Primer- say 2 cents.
Powder- depends, no more than 2 cents.

8.15 cents (generous).

I do much of my prep work, inspecting cases, depriming, etc in the evenings listening to the news. I have a small table set up in the den or in the guest bedroom (No permanent setup- I'm a gypsy reloader ). The critical steps like measuring powder, seating bullets I do in the garage with no distractions. So around a nickel a pop for practice rounds. That's 10.00 for the typical outing. It adds up. You don't have to make a career of it, but even on a single stage you can save money.

 

[frankt]

I could copy Sam Adams post here and not have to type all that over again.

I do just like he said and after the cases are primed I usually quit for a day or so until I am inspired again. I limit myself to 200 rounds at a time. That is about all I can do at a sitting.

I reload for relaxation,to save money and to get tailor made loads. I would not try to keep up to all my shooting with a single stage so I buy from Wal mart or Lancer usually 1000 at a time and supplement that with reloading on the side.

 

[Vitamin G]

My personal rule of thumb is not to reload anything cheaper than $8\50

I reload .45acp and 10mm.

I will likely begin reloading 30-06 when i get one.

 

[Sam Adams]

Frankt

I could copy Sam Adams post here and not have to type all that over again.

Thanks.

I do just like he said and after the cases are primed I usually quit for a day or so until I am inspired again. I limit myself to 200 rounds at a time. That is about all I can do at a sitting.

I just finished loading 200 9mm over the past week in bits and pieces (having a family really cuts into reloading time, such are the sacrifices we make ), and I'm probably going to make only 50 or 100 more before I switch to some rifle calibers. Given that I try to maximize available time, I want to make the best use of the time I spent setting up the powder measure and bullet seater.

I, too, get bored doing the same thing for too long. Variety is the spice of life (though trying those varieties in certain instances can get you in deep doo doo ), and it certainly applies to shooting. Note, though, that the guns are never jealous if you use other guns, which is one of the reasons why guns are better than.... Also, you can trade a 44 for 2 22s without repercussions.

 

[1911user]

Sam, you are a good candidate for a progressive reloader especially for the pistol ammo. With my press set up, I can sit down and crank out 100 rounds of good ammo when I have 15 minutes to spare. I could do more with more time, but a 15 minute break from something else is all it takes.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I agree Sam is a candidate for a faster reloader, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the New Lee Classic Turret press. With the new safety primer, a Pro Auto Disk measure and the Lee 4 die set, he can easily turn out 200 rounds in an hour, which is darn good production for the little bit of money that press costs. If he wants to work at it, he can get that count up to 300.

Frankly, based on my current round count out of my milsurps per month, I think if I didn't already own a Hornady Lock and Load, I might very well have just bought a Lee Classic Turret press.

Now if your weekly round count is heading towards 400-500 or so, you need a Hornady Lock N Load, or a Dillon 650.

Regards,

Dave

 

[1911user]

It seems like Sam doesn't have much spare time so why not make the most of it? (hence my example of 15 minute time blocks to go load a quick 100 rounds). You don't have to shoot a zillion rounds a week to justify a progressive setup. Family time also has a value and some people have much more hobby money than others.

A turret press is simply a single stage press that happens to hold more than 1 die at a time. I don't understand why they continue to be brought up in repsonse to a mention of progressives; they aren't in the same league of performance.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

1911user,

You need to investigate the latest Lee turret press offering. You're thinking of turrets relative to manual advance with no part of the reloading process automated, when in fact the Lee Classic turret has several automated and semi-automated processes. With case activated powder drop, auto indexing and a very quick primer dispense/loading system, it is, in fact, capable of 200-300 rounds per hour. The round count vs. cost to get reloading is an extremely high ratio.

This is a very similar thing to what Dillon did with the AT500 to make it an RL550B, aka automate certain processes, but at a much lower price point than the Dillon offering.

And that, my friend, is what makes the unit so very attractive. It's fast enough for most reloader's applications, without require a huge investment in cash. In other words, a good compromise between cost, speed and quality. And yes, it's a quality machine, much beefier than previous Lee offerings.

And there is a value to having some time to one's self while reloading, rather than being totally socked in with kids and wife. Time away and some space to do one's own thing makes for a healthy family all around. That's not to say one should neglect the familiy either, but a balance can be achieved. And a guy with a family might not be able to afford a full blown progressive, but a fast turret, that's more affordable.

Regards,

Dave

 

[1911user]

EDIT: When a Lee turret press starts using loadmaster or pro-1000 shellplates filled with 3 or 5 cases, then it will be similar to a progressive press. An AT500 is a discontinued turret press (based on a stripped dillon 550 frame with an "all caliber" shellplate). When upgraded extensively it became a Dillon 550B PROGRESSIVE press that now worked on 4 cases at once instead of only 1 case. You get a loaded round with every handle pull, not every 4 handle pulls like a turret press.

For some people the low amount of money invested in their reloading setup is the most important thing and for others the fact they spent so much is a bragging right. Money isn't the object; effective, enjoyable loading is IMO. If I lost or had to sell my entire reloading setup for some reason, I'd replace it with a very similar setup given a chance.

I want to see the video of 300 an hour on a lee turret. I had one with the auto-disk and the (sometimes) auto-advance for 9 long years; not interested in another one, ever. I'd sell a gun to buy a better press rather than use a lee turret again.

 

[robertbank]

Just a follow-up on what 1911user said. I don't know how old you are but when you consider a Dillon 550 will last you a life time with an even longer guarantee, the additional cost for the Dillon is money well spent IMHO. I got mine when I was 57 and have kicked myself ever since for not buying it much sooner. I can use it as a single stage if I want and it loads every conceivable cartridge I would ever reload. Easy to use and versatile.

Take Care

 

[Topgunner]

Great Day

If I were looking forward to the prospect of reloading 1,000 9mm on a single-stage press, I'd save myself the agony by loading 1 round and them promptly using it.

I am by no means an experienced handloader, and am still in heavy information-gathering mode. However, based on comparing the various methods of reloading and the different brand and model presses available to accomplish those tasks, I just did what I judged to be the right thing the first time around and got the Dillon XL650.

I bought a planned selection of conversion kits and a few individual parts, and now have nearly every piece needed to load all but what I consider the most obscure calibers in the conversion chart. Except for dies, I'm done.

Dillon has very good technical support
Dillon has an excellent warranty
Dillon provides excellent customer service
Press setup for a new caliber is easy.
Switching toolheads, esp. with a Quick-Change kit is effortless
Once the press is set up, calibrated, and locked in, I just dump clean brass into the top hopper and start churning out rounds.
It's a great press for a beginner - it automatically advances the round to the next station (no double-loads), automatically warns of low primers, low powder, incorrectly loaded cartridges (too much or too little powder dispensed into case) etc.
Since everything happens automatically, the user need only place a bullet into station 4 and pull the lever. The process can be studied station by station (it's hard not to - the engineering is fascinating) at the user's leisure.
Less requirements placed on the user means less opportunities for a new user to screw up.
The press is trivially converted to a non-progressive press by removal of a plastic cam from the frame.
Use of an empty powder measure allows hand-filling cases with individually measured amounts of powder if so desired.


Definitely lube all your cases regardless.
Load a batch and finish-polish to remove lube in a vibratory cleaner.


I've still got lots to learn in order to make high-quality ammo at very affordable prices, but what I've been doing so far has worked pretty well, and I've learned a lot about ammunition and the operation of firearms just from owning the press.