Reloading for a Garand
- Thread starter marineman
- Start date
- Status
Steve in PA
Member
150gr FMJ and 47.0gr of IMR4895.
Was cost effective before everyone started buying up all the bullets, powder and primers.
Nothing but CCI Large Rifle Primers.
Was cost effective before everyone started buying up all the bullets, powder and primers.
Nothing but CCI Large Rifle Primers.
Last edited:
SquirrelNuts
Member
I use CCI regular Large Rifle primers. CCI also makes the #34 primer, which is designed for military firearms. It is a harder primer, and helps to eliminate slam fires. Those would be a good choice for a Garand.
ReloaderFred
Member
My eight Garands wouldn't know what to do with factory ammunition. I've always used Winchester primers in mine, and never experienced any problems. All of the ones I've owned (eleven) have had "generous" chambers, so you may want to set up your sizing die according to the chamber of your Garand.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Hope this helps.
Fred
NuJudge
Member
What targets are you shooting at, and at what range? If you want to just shoot at pop cans at 25 yards, no, reloading is probably not worth it. Go buy CMP Greek HXP. Until the recent price increase it was just $0.28 a round, plus shipping.
If you have a bedded, fitted Match accurized Garand, they you can buy match ammo at over a buck a round, or handload for about half of that.
Regardless, once the HXP is exhausted, the price of .30-'06 surplus will probably immediately increase to $0.60 a round, so it would be good to get some now.
I used to use the Federal large rifle primer (with no problems), but switched to Winchester because of availability. I have a lot of the CCI "Military" primers, but won't get to them until all my old Winchesters are shot up.
In terms of loads, almost all of my loads feature 165 or 168gr bullets and IMR4895, work up to about 46gr. This is not much different from the GI match loading.
CDD
If you have a bedded, fitted Match accurized Garand, they you can buy match ammo at over a buck a round, or handload for about half of that.
Regardless, once the HXP is exhausted, the price of .30-'06 surplus will probably immediately increase to $0.60 a round, so it would be good to get some now.
I used to use the Federal large rifle primer (with no problems), but switched to Winchester because of availability. I have a lot of the CCI "Military" primers, but won't get to them until all my old Winchesters are shot up.
In terms of loads, almost all of my loads feature 165 or 168gr bullets and IMR4895, work up to about 46gr. This is not much different from the GI match loading.
CDD
For my match Garands, (and in my match bolt rifle) , I have used a load of 168 Match (any brand) 47.0 grains IMR 4895/AA2495 any case, WLR/CCI#34 OAL LT 3.30”
I loaded several hundred rounds with the 150 SMK bullet. I used a load of 47.5 grains IMR 4895, WWII cases, CCI #34 primers. I tested it in several rifles, chronograph data is in an all correct late model Garand.
Either of these loads could be cut by as much as a grain and it would not hurt anything.
When AA2495 was cheaper I used kegs of it. There was absolutely no significant difference charge weight/velocity when compared to IMR 4895. When I called Accurate Arms, they told me the powder duplicated the pressures curves of IMR 4895. Stupidly, they call it AA2495 instead of AA4895.
I have not tested H4895 in a 30-06. In a 308 it is close to IMR 4895 but it is not identical.
Below is data with powders that are entirely acceptable in a M1 Garand. AA2520 is a ball powder and shoots very well in Garands and M1a’s. IMR 4064 does not meter as well as IMR 4895, but it is an outstanding powder and the slowest you should go in a Garand.
I never tested IMR 3031 in a 30-06, but many sources state that 3031 is the fastest you should use in a Garand. It does shoot exceptionally well in the 308 and last week at the range the Club president was shooting almost touching groups at 200 yards with it in a 30-06.
Recent Target
M1 Garand 5 827 ZZZ
150 gr Sierra Match HPBT 47.5 IMR 4895 CCI#34 WWII cases OAL 3.290"
24 Mar 04 T= 70 ° F
Ave Vel = 2619
Std Dev = 28
ES = 101
Low = 2559
High = 2660
N = 16
Same load shot in a match barrel
This should tell you a lot about the match ammo used in Garands
I loaded several hundred rounds with the 150 SMK bullet. I used a load of 47.5 grains IMR 4895, WWII cases, CCI #34 primers. I tested it in several rifles, chronograph data is in an all correct late model Garand.
Either of these loads could be cut by as much as a grain and it would not hurt anything.
When AA2495 was cheaper I used kegs of it. There was absolutely no significant difference charge weight/velocity when compared to IMR 4895. When I called Accurate Arms, they told me the powder duplicated the pressures curves of IMR 4895. Stupidly, they call it AA2495 instead of AA4895.
I have not tested H4895 in a 30-06. In a 308 it is close to IMR 4895 but it is not identical.
Below is data with powders that are entirely acceptable in a M1 Garand. AA2520 is a ball powder and shoots very well in Garands and M1a’s. IMR 4064 does not meter as well as IMR 4895, but it is an outstanding powder and the slowest you should go in a Garand.
I never tested IMR 3031 in a 30-06, but many sources state that 3031 is the fastest you should use in a Garand. It does shoot exceptionally well in the 308 and last week at the range the Club president was shooting almost touching groups at 200 yards with it in a 30-06.
Code:
M1 Garand Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist
168 Sierra Match 47.0 grs AA2495 wtd WLR FC Cases OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F
Ave Vel = 2632
Std Dev = 16
ES = 50
Low = 2616
High = 2666
N = 10
168 gr Sierra Match 47.0 AA2520 WWII cases WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F )
Ave Vel = 2658
Std Dev = 35
ES = 85
Low = 2612
High = 2697
N = 5
168 gr Sierra Match 48.0 IMR 4064 wtd LC66NM WLR OAL 3.30"
5 May 00 T = 82 ° F
Ave Vel = 2594
Std Dev = 18
ES = 38
Low = 2575
High = 2613
N = 5Recent Target
M1 Garand 5 827 ZZZ
150 gr Sierra Match HPBT 47.5 IMR 4895 CCI#34 WWII cases OAL 3.290"
24 Mar 04 T= 70 ° F
Ave Vel = 2619
Std Dev = 28
ES = 101
Low = 2559
High = 2660
N = 16
Same load shot in a match barrel
This should tell you a lot about the match ammo used in Garands
Last edited:
Folks have been reloading for Garands since the 1940's. Here's a bit of history and facts regarding it.
When high power competition got back to full swing after WWII, lots of folks, both military and civilian used their Garands. It was the only rifle allowed in service rifle matches and the cartridge was the only one allowed in most match rifle matches. The best shots in both military and civilian disciplines soon learned something about the Garand.
New ammo, either good commercial match (everyone loved the Western Cartridge Company's white box match ammo) or military M72 match was the most accurate. Nobody got reloads to shoot as accurate as new cases. Those hand loading new cases could duplicate arsenal and commercial match ammo. The best of the match conditioned 30 caliber Garands by the mid 1960's would stay under 8 inches at 600 yards and shoot a bit under 1/2 inch at 100 yards with good lots of this ammo.
The reason is the bolt face. That critical part of Garands was never squared perpendicular with the chamber axis. It allowed fired case heads to flatten against it then they were out of square until fired several times. Out of square case heads on bolt faces the same way have never shot as accurate as both bolt face and case head both being squared.
The favorite powders for 172-gr. military match or 150 to 180-grain match bullets was IMR4064 with IMR4895 back somewhat in second place. Nobody got acceptable accuracy with ball powder. 'Course that's the norm with the 7.62 NATO round as well. Any extruded powder in the burning range of these two should work safely.
The slowest powder used successfully in Garands I know of was the USN/USAF hand load for their 7.62 NATO converted versions using 44 grains of IMR4320 under a Sierra 190 HPMK in a new LC M118 match primed case; probably the most accurate long range load ever used in any Garand. I've heard of other military teams trying a heavier charge of IMR4320 with the 190 in .30-06 Garands, but have no details on its success. It may well be pretty good.
These IMR4320 loads have a bit higher gas port pressure than more conventional loads. The op rod has to be perfectly fitted to the gas cylinder, lower band, receiver and bolt. Otherwise, these loads will bend it as many folks found out. Very, very few people have the tools, skills and knowledge to do this correctly.
When high power competition got back to full swing after WWII, lots of folks, both military and civilian used their Garands. It was the only rifle allowed in service rifle matches and the cartridge was the only one allowed in most match rifle matches. The best shots in both military and civilian disciplines soon learned something about the Garand.
New ammo, either good commercial match (everyone loved the Western Cartridge Company's white box match ammo) or military M72 match was the most accurate. Nobody got reloads to shoot as accurate as new cases. Those hand loading new cases could duplicate arsenal and commercial match ammo. The best of the match conditioned 30 caliber Garands by the mid 1960's would stay under 8 inches at 600 yards and shoot a bit under 1/2 inch at 100 yards with good lots of this ammo.
The reason is the bolt face. That critical part of Garands was never squared perpendicular with the chamber axis. It allowed fired case heads to flatten against it then they were out of square until fired several times. Out of square case heads on bolt faces the same way have never shot as accurate as both bolt face and case head both being squared.
The favorite powders for 172-gr. military match or 150 to 180-grain match bullets was IMR4064 with IMR4895 back somewhat in second place. Nobody got acceptable accuracy with ball powder. 'Course that's the norm with the 7.62 NATO round as well. Any extruded powder in the burning range of these two should work safely.
The slowest powder used successfully in Garands I know of was the USN/USAF hand load for their 7.62 NATO converted versions using 44 grains of IMR4320 under a Sierra 190 HPMK in a new LC M118 match primed case; probably the most accurate long range load ever used in any Garand. I've heard of other military teams trying a heavier charge of IMR4320 with the 190 in .30-06 Garands, but have no details on its success. It may well be pretty good.
These IMR4320 loads have a bit higher gas port pressure than more conventional loads. The op rod has to be perfectly fitted to the gas cylinder, lower band, receiver and bolt. Otherwise, these loads will bend it as many folks found out. Very, very few people have the tools, skills and knowledge to do this correctly.
OK, I have .30-06 brass, 150gr. pulled milsurp FMJ bullets, primers, 1# of IMR4895, the press, the dies, a case trimmer & burring tool, everything but some case lube.
Now, what else do I need to load ammo for my M1? Is there some kind of case gauge I need? Anything else special?
I've loaded thousands of pistol rounds, but never rifle, and I'm very unsure about what all I have to do to the cases before powder and bullet. The whole case-trimming/measuring/stretch/headspace thing kinda freaks me out.
Oh, and I'll also be loading .30-06 for my Rem 700, probably the same load as above, just for targets and plinking. Will I need to do anything different to load for two separate rifles?
Keep the ammo separate? Use milsurp cases for the M1, and commercials for the 700?
I'm so confused.
Now, what else do I need to load ammo for my M1? Is there some kind of case gauge I need? Anything else special?
I've loaded thousands of pistol rounds, but never rifle, and I'm very unsure about what all I have to do to the cases before powder and bullet. The whole case-trimming/measuring/stretch/headspace thing kinda freaks me out.
Oh, and I'll also be loading .30-06 for my Rem 700, probably the same load as above, just for targets and plinking. Will I need to do anything different to load for two separate rifles?
Keep the ammo separate? Use milsurp cases for the M1, and commercials for the 700?
I'm so confused.
NuJudge
Member
M1 Garands are not difficult to load for
I don't see a Vernier Caliper mentioned there. A Micrometer is also valuable. If you buy a cheap one, expect it to be frequently off by .002", so verify all readings with known quantities
First, inspect your brass. Discard Berdan primed and any with splits or cracks.
Sizing is straight forward. Carbide dies are terribly expensive for the .30-'06, and in the .30-'06 require lube anyway. If you are using Greek HXP surplus brass, it is really soft and it is the one .30-'06 brass I have found which needs a Small Base Sizer.
If you are using Military brass, the primers will almost always be crimped in, which requires crimp removal after Sizing/Decapping. There are several types of crimp removers, some relying on cutting, some relying on swaging. I'm a swaging kind of guy, relying on the RCBS swager for 35 years.
There are various measuring gauges available for the .30-'06, and it is nice to have them. Case Length and Headspace are some of them. Some are combinations, others just do one. The really important ones are Case Length and Case Headspace. I like the Wilson combination Case gauge.
With a sized, unprimed case, it is not a bad idea to take some considerable number, gently insert them in your chamber, gently close the bolt so the extractor clips over the rim, open the bolt slightly, then gently close the bolt, seeing if there is resistance to closing.
After Sizing/Decapping, and dealing with crimped primer pockets, measure for length. If they exceed maximum length, you need to Trim. If you don't trim, pressures will go way high. Chamfer inside and out after trimming.
Priming is the same as Pistol, as is Powder charging, but having your primer at least slightly below flush is critical or you will get slamfires. Garands require a powder with a burn rate in the 3031-4895-4064 range. No belling of case mouths as with pistol. Seating bullets is the same, and while you can Crimp for the .30-'06 it should not be necessary.
Trimming is the biggest pain in the neck. I used a Forster mini-lathe for many years, then got a spud that allowed it to be powered by a hand drill, then really dealt with the time demands of trimming by getting a Giraud trimmer.
I don't see a Vernier Caliper mentioned there. A Micrometer is also valuable. If you buy a cheap one, expect it to be frequently off by .002", so verify all readings with known quantities
First, inspect your brass. Discard Berdan primed and any with splits or cracks.
Sizing is straight forward. Carbide dies are terribly expensive for the .30-'06, and in the .30-'06 require lube anyway. If you are using Greek HXP surplus brass, it is really soft and it is the one .30-'06 brass I have found which needs a Small Base Sizer.
If you are using Military brass, the primers will almost always be crimped in, which requires crimp removal after Sizing/Decapping. There are several types of crimp removers, some relying on cutting, some relying on swaging. I'm a swaging kind of guy, relying on the RCBS swager for 35 years.
There are various measuring gauges available for the .30-'06, and it is nice to have them. Case Length and Headspace are some of them. Some are combinations, others just do one. The really important ones are Case Length and Case Headspace. I like the Wilson combination Case gauge.
With a sized, unprimed case, it is not a bad idea to take some considerable number, gently insert them in your chamber, gently close the bolt so the extractor clips over the rim, open the bolt slightly, then gently close the bolt, seeing if there is resistance to closing.
After Sizing/Decapping, and dealing with crimped primer pockets, measure for length. If they exceed maximum length, you need to Trim. If you don't trim, pressures will go way high. Chamfer inside and out after trimming.
Priming is the same as Pistol, as is Powder charging, but having your primer at least slightly below flush is critical or you will get slamfires. Garands require a powder with a burn rate in the 3031-4895-4064 range. No belling of case mouths as with pistol. Seating bullets is the same, and while you can Crimp for the .30-'06 it should not be necessary.
Trimming is the biggest pain in the neck. I used a Forster mini-lathe for many years, then got a spud that allowed it to be powered by a hand drill, then really dealt with the time demands of trimming by getting a Giraud trimmer.
Last edited:
NuJudge
Member
More thoughts
Small Base Sizer:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=686446
Lots of different gauges to measure cases. The Hornady tool to measure distance from the case head to a datum line on the case shoulder (headspace):
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/8809/Case-Gauges-Headspace-Tools
The cheap, quick and not very accurate case length measuring tool:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/ezee-case-gauge.php
A fancy headspace and case length gauge from Lyman:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/rifle-headspace-gauges.php
I have no experience with the Lyman trimmer. The only one I see at the Lyman site has a small motor on it to power it. I worry about small motors regularly stalling out.
After the Lyman trims a case you will have to inside and outside chamfer the case. There are two trimmers that both trim and chamfer inside and out: the $400 Giraud and the RCBS. This is a time saver.
If you are just reloading for one rifle in a caliber, you might want to look into the RCBS X-dies, for which you only have to trim once.
Small Base Sizer:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=686446
Lots of different gauges to measure cases. The Hornady tool to measure distance from the case head to a datum line on the case shoulder (headspace):
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/8809/Case-Gauges-Headspace-Tools
The cheap, quick and not very accurate case length measuring tool:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/ezee-case-gauge.php
A fancy headspace and case length gauge from Lyman:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/rifle-headspace-gauges.php
I have no experience with the Lyman trimmer. The only one I see at the Lyman site has a small motor on it to power it. I worry about small motors regularly stalling out.
After the Lyman trims a case you will have to inside and outside chamfer the case. There are two trimmers that both trim and chamfer inside and out: the $400 Giraud and the RCBS. This is a time saver.
If you are just reloading for one rifle in a caliber, you might want to look into the RCBS X-dies, for which you only have to trim once.
ADKWOODSMAN
Member
150gr FMJ and 47.0gr of IMR4895.
Same as Steve in PA, I've also used it with l165's.
Same as Steve in PA, I've also used it with l165's.
bfoosh006
Member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,085
Read the first two articles, http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
Its talking about the M14/M1a, but most of it pertains to the Garand's idiosyncrasies also.
Its talking about the M14/M1a, but most of it pertains to the Garand's idiosyncrasies also.
- Status
