Rem 700 with long throat....

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mathmann

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I need a little help. Despite my age (old + a few), I'm new to the sport (both shooting & reloading). I'm retired military, and a precision CNC machinist in my "second life" (although not a gunsmith by any stretch). I have a "situation" which prompts me to seek the wisdom/advise of more experienced enthusiats & gunsmiths.

I recently purchased a Rem 700 BDL in 22-250 cal. My initial factory ammo choice is Hornady Superformance Varmit, 50-gr V-Max, 4,000 fps (claimed) with a C.O.L. of 2.340" (0.010" less than SAAMI max). Although purchased initially for varmit hunting, I'm going to reload with the intent of getting the most accuracy out of the gun as possible, not necessarily the highest velocity. I've been reading (a lot!) about ballistics (internal, external & terminal) and reloading, and have outfitted a respectable reloading bench.

Today, I was disappointed. Here's why: I've read that the best accuracy usually occurs when a bullet is seated close to the rifling. Zero inches of clearance, up to .030" clearance is often quoted, although I've read comments that more clearance sometimes produces good results. I measured the clearance of my chosen factory ammo, and was shocked to find that, in my arm, it has 0.147" clearance from factory's bullet seating depth to the engagement of the rifling. Granted, the V-Max bullet has a sharp ogive (which increases the clearance), but this is MUCH more than I expected, and 10 times the clearance I was hoping to achieve.

The factory round is already close to the SAAMI max C.O.L., but my magazine & receiver is plenty long enough to extend my rounds beyond the SAAMI max .... BUT ..... placing the bullet near the rifling means only 0.125" of the bullet is gripped by the case. I'm guessing this is way too little.

So ... I want to shorten the throat, but the only two ways to acheive this is to move the rifling backwards (not possible!), or to move the chamber forward. Since it's not possible to replace rifling that has been reamed away by the factory, my only option is to remove the barrel, shorten the breach end by 0.100" and then re-ream the chamber to the correct depth (by extending it by the same 0.100" the barrel was shortened). The intended result would be simply shortening the throat (free-bore) by 0.100", thus allowing me to seat my chosen bullet (Hornady V-Max 50 gr.) MUCH closer to the rifling. I know this is an over-simplified explanation, and there are several other concerns & dimensions to maintain, but you get the idea. (I know that a new custom barrel is also an option, but I'm calling that Plan-B.)

Question: Is this a ludicrous thought .... or something that just may work if done correctly? (As a machininst, I own a precision lathe capable of the task, and plenty of inspection equipment, but that doesn't make it a wise venture......)

Intelligent comments born of wisdome and/or experience would be GREATLY appreciated. Redneck jabs fueled by an alcohol induced stupidity can be kept to one's self.

Thanks in advance (and sorry for the long post, but better too much info than not enough)
Mike
 
That was going to me my first question too.
Don't fix it if it isn't broke.

Seating to the lands may help, or it may not.

Some of the most accurate ammo made in the world is factory Match and Varmint ammo.

It is seated to a standard length that will work in any rifle.

rc
 
You would need to shorten the breach end an amount equal to one or more full threads in order to have the factory roll marks come back to the same relative spot. That may or may not matter to you. I don't recall the Remington thread pitch, but I think it is 16 per inch. That works out .0625" for one and .125" for two. I've never rebarreled a Remy and don't know what your barrel contour is, so cannot comment on what that will look like or whether it is even doable with the remaining barrel shank. I suspect that there is a relief at at the end of the threads near the shoulder which will preclude regaining the lost threads from the other end. That will give you less bearing surface to stabilise the barrel - receiver joint, perhaps reducing potential accuracy. More is better up to a point. I think that you will end up better off with a new barrel vice doing this.
 
Agree with the others.
To get a bullet close to the lands will require setting the factory barrel back at least two turns and maybe three.

My objective question is, how well does it shoot now? I suspect pretty well.

My hypothetical question is, how well will a mass produced factory barrel shoot after being set back and given bullets with short "jump?" I suspect not a lot better.

If it is reasonably satisfactory as is, I suggest leaving it alone, shooting it until worn out or you get bored with it, then put on a high quality replacement barrel with real "match grade" chamber.

Great that you have a lathe and supporting gear; but you will need some specific tooling. A barrel vise and action wrench to get the darned thing apart and back together, a chamber reamer and headspace gauge(s) to make the desired changes or new installation. Also some instructions. There are books on the methods and techniques for rebarreling rifles.
 
Thanks all for the feedback and the comments.

To: BBBBill - Yours was the most detailed & informative reply. Truth be told, I had already considered much of what you wrote, but didn't want to write a novel in my original post. I had considered setting the barrel back by a thread-pitch-multiple .... and regarding the undercut and reduced bearing surface .... I "assumed" much of the bearing surface would come from the shoulder, and the pressure upon it provided by the threads. The reduction of thread length was considered, but I was going to look into the possibility of deepening the threads in the receiver to minimize the necessity to remove threads "from the other end". (I hope that made sense.) I realize that many of these decisions depend on what I find when I "crack that sucker open".

Regarding the many questions about "how does it shoot now": I refrained from putting that in the original post because .... it doesn't shoot badly. I haven't taken it to the range to get a "bullet circle" size. My "range" is my farm and my targets are the whistle pigs (a.k.a. wood chucks) that taunt me. I've missed a few around 200 yds, but truth be told, I'm not the best shot .... which is why I need all the help I can get from my equipment. I know all about the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy ..... but I'm not a subscriber (much to the dismay of the boss). Some would say "If it's broke, I can fix it". On the other hand, I say "If it ain't broke, I can break it!

I had another epiphany (or as my wife would call it: another stupid idea) last night. Rather than trying to:
* Shorten the barrel from the breach end
* deepen the chamber (by the same amount
an alternative might be:
* deepen the chamber by 0.1xx" (but NOT shorten the barrel)
* Manufacture a new bolt with an additional 0.1xx" length in front of the lugs

I'm not sure this would be any easier, or wiser, but the end result would be the same (to reduce throat length by 0.1xx"). Oh my ..... Decisions Decisions

Of course another obvious choice would be just to leave well enough alone and be happy with what I've got ..... but where's the fun in that?
 
To be perfectly honest, unless the hobby of doing any of the things you are proposing is the "function of the exercise," itself, it's not going to make one whit of difference if your rifle is capable of shooting .1 MOA groups if you cannot utilize that based on the shooting conditions you choose. You will only miss more precisely.

If you truly want to have a shorter throat so you can seat your bullets closed to the lands, the most predictable and cost-effective solution would be to install a custom barrel. With a short throat.

If you are just interested in working on your own rifle for giggles and hobby, buy a barrel vice and an action wrench, reamers and the like, and plan on ruining a lot of things along the way. But you will learn, eventually.

Best of luck!
 
Manufacture a new bolt with an additional 0.1xx" length in front of the lugs
Do you have the skill, equipment, and knowledge to make a new bolt and properly heat treat it so it doesn't shear the locking lugs off and blow the bolt out through your head the first shot??

rc
 
To RCMODEL: Skill: yes, Equipment: yes Knoweledge: No ... well not yet at least, and I wouldn't attempt it unless I could wrangle up the proper (trustworthy) information. I do have access to heat treatment resources .... and the rest of the fabrication equip is already "in house". But I respect (and even agree) that this may not be a wise endeavor. As for "blowing my head off"..... while my wife might giggle at the thought, I exercise a little more care than that. (..... it would have to happen on at least the 10'th shot!)

To AMFLYER: At least part of my interest is to thwart boredom .... but I do like your comment about "missing with more precision". Anything is better with more precision .... even missing! And, I've ruined enough "stuff" in my life, I don't know what I'd do if I stopped now (but I still have all 10 digits).

Thanks again......
 
You could go to a wildcat cartridge.
A .22-243 would be about .133" longer in the case which would clean up the .22-250 and most of the overly long throat.
It would also give higher velocity and shorter barrel life.

You mentioned what would amount to running in a .22-250 reamer a bit deeper and form brass out of something longer with the same neck, shoulder, and body dimensions. Probably use the same dies.

Or just lengthen the chamber neck and form .22-250 brass out of something longer to give a longnecked version of what you already shoot.

Rereading the OP, I see:
"placing the bullet near the rifling means only 0.125" of the bullet is gripped by the case. I'm guessing this is way too little."
Maybe not. Why guess? Load some and see. Handle ammo carefully from box to rifle to not dislodge or cant the bullets and shoot. That would at least tell you whether any scheme to get bullets closer to the rifling IN THAT BARREL would help.
 
I think it would be much more fun to work on my shooting skills first, perhaps set up a bench on your land and zero the rifle in at 100yds. You said you haven't gone to a range yet, How did you sight it in??
 
Jim Watson said:
You could go to a wildcat cartridge.
A .22-243 would be about .133" longer in the case which would clean up the .22-250 and most of the overly long throat.
It would also give higher velocity and shorter barrel life.

You mentioned what would amount to running in a .22-250 reamer a bit deeper and form brass out of something longer with the same neck, shoulder, and body dimensions. Probably use the same dies.

Or just lengthen the chamber neck and form .22-250 brass out of something longer to give a longnecked version of what you already shoot.

Rereading the OP, I see:
"placing the bullet near the rifling means only 0.125" of the bullet is gripped by the case. I'm guessing this is way too little."
Maybe not. Why guess? Load some and see. Handle ammo carefully from box to rifle to not dislodge or cant the bullets and shoot. That would at least tell you whether any scheme to get bullets closer to the rifling IN THAT BARREL would help.

This is what makes most sense to me for your first efforts. A Wildcat rechamber would be next. For a long nosed bolt, if even feasible, I would go to PTG and get them to make a one off variation of the Remy bolts that they already build.... that is, if they were willing to go there.
 
To All ..... Thanks (again)

To Richie: I sighted my gun in at my farm. 150 yards shooting from a bench. So I didn't "technically" go to a range, but I set up a make-shift range at my place.

To Jim Watson: I suppose I hadn't originally considered a wildcat modification, although I see that my ideas are running pretty close to that in effort & work. Thanks for the idea (as if I needed another thought to confuse my mind).

To BBBBill and ALSAQR: Thanks for the reinforcement of Jim's comments. BBBBILL, PTG ???? Did I mention I'm new to the world of bang-sticks? (But not precision machining....) I'm not familiar with PTG

Thanks again
 
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