Dollar An Hour
Member
Well, Saigas are 100% new rifles, whereas a Romanian is varying degrees of used, isn't it?
Saiga and AK Buying Questions
- Thread starter Dynasty
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rbernie
Contributing Member
I have done both - bought Romanian builds, and bought Saigas. My Saiga conversion in 223 shoots much better (more accurate, smoother action, finer finish) than my SAR-3, and can be had in both a 16" or 21" barrel. I can also get a Saiga in 308 or 12/20ga, whereas I cannot get any other form of AK in those chamberings.
Technoically, I believe so, since I have been told that any Romanian being built these days came in as a demilled kit. I've seen some kits that looked like they had never been shot, tho.
I would put a quality Romanian build on par with a converted Saiga in terms of potential longevity and durablility. The key is the word 'quality', which pretty much eliminates many of the WASR/SAR contenders.
And before anyone with a WASR gets mad at me - I have two of em, and love em. They go BANG when needed, and are a fun carbine to beat around. But I also know that they are not what they are not, which is to say a finely crafted example of the breed.
nalioth
Member
You just pegged what lots of people don't realize. Almost every "NEW" AK is built off of a demilled Romanian "G" kit. These kits come in all grades from "holy cow, which mud hole did they dig this out of" to "it didn't leave the warehouse". Which one did Lancaster use to build 'yours' from?Dollar An Hour said:
Parkerizing and Gunkote cover up a lot.
I have not converted mine (saiga). I thought about it. But in the end I found that I personally like it just the way it is. Shoots great, good accuracy for an AK in 7.62x39, and the 10 round mags don't protude below the rifle as far making it easier to handle (and change mags) for me, and (obviously), dead/bang reliable. Given the price I paid for a brand new rifle...I coulnd't be happier with it. And I do have a Chinese MAK-90 to compare it to.
nalioth
Member
I'd advise you to not be in a rush, then. Go to gun shows and handle the various specimens. If you have friends with any, see if they'll let you shoot them.Dynasty said:
Haste makes waste, as they say.
rbernie
Contributing Member
A quality Saiga conversion is probably better than either. The CAI Yugos are much nicer than their WASRs or SARs, but don't have siderails for an optic. Overall, I would be very happy with a Yugo if one dropped into my lap.
In order - Saiga, Yugo, SAR, WASR.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Depends on the chambering, barrel length, and the stock options. In the DFW area, you can usually get the 16" 223 or 7.62x39 at any gun show for about $290; the 21" barrels cost a bit more, as does the Dragunov stock version. The 308s go for about $50 more.
It is the 16" in 7.62x39, just the standard stock pictured here; http://www.classicarms.us/p_saiga.gif
The only dealer I can find that carries them sells them for 320, but wont have any in for a while. No gun show till the end of next month! I would rather save that 30 bucks and see it go towards conversion parts.
nalioth
Member
Online vendors pricing starts at $240 for the Saiga at last glance. Use the search feature here, one of the threads had a whole list of Saiga vendors.
I just bought a 7.62 saiga from Mississippi Auto Arms for around $250. I bought a 30 round surefire mag on top of it but everything came to around 275 shipped.
14427H
Member
Magazines and "large capacity military magazine"
To hit this very dead horse once again...the 922r issue on using AK magazines in a Saiga is two fold.
If you read the 1998 import ruling letter from BATF...yep, no 10+ rounds AND ALSO no ability to accept a military AK magazine..."large capacity military magazine". If it was just 10 or less there would be no Romy single 10's and the Saiga would take a 10 round AK magazine. If you modify your Saiga to function with an AK magazine without 922r compliance it is not legal....10 round AK, 30 round AK, 1 round AK...it makes no difference. Not different than any other evil part issue.
So...no stock Saigas with AK magazines but what about 30 round Saiga magazines?
It is still the same 922r and "1998 letter" evil parts issue that used the Clinton ban to stop +10 round magazines and the other goodies. No +10 rounds is in there but it is clearly stated that it is based on the Clinton ban being the reason. I have never heard of anyone with a BATF reply to how they still uphold a rule based on the Clinton ban. We do have precedence they might be able to find...maybe...the Eighteenth Amendment along with the Volstead Act that established Prohibition was repealed by the Twenty-first Amendment.
Till they repeal 922r or you comply with 922r, no such thing as legal 30 round Saiga magazines. Not different than any other part issue. You think that no 30 round Saiga magazines is BS? Keep going, add the pistol grip whatever, you are not in 922r compliance.
To hit this very dead horse once again...the 922r issue on using AK magazines in a Saiga is two fold.
If you read the 1998 import ruling letter from BATF...yep, no 10+ rounds AND ALSO no ability to accept a military AK magazine..."large capacity military magazine". If it was just 10 or less there would be no Romy single 10's and the Saiga would take a 10 round AK magazine. If you modify your Saiga to function with an AK magazine without 922r compliance it is not legal....10 round AK, 30 round AK, 1 round AK...it makes no difference. Not different than any other evil part issue.
So...no stock Saigas with AK magazines but what about 30 round Saiga magazines?
It is still the same 922r and "1998 letter" evil parts issue that used the Clinton ban to stop +10 round magazines and the other goodies. No +10 rounds is in there but it is clearly stated that it is based on the Clinton ban being the reason. I have never heard of anyone with a BATF reply to how they still uphold a rule based on the Clinton ban. We do have precedence they might be able to find...maybe...the Eighteenth Amendment along with the Volstead Act that established Prohibition was repealed by the Twenty-first Amendment.
Till they repeal 922r or you comply with 922r, no such thing as legal 30 round Saiga magazines. Not different than any other part issue. You think that no 30 round Saiga magazines is BS? Keep going, add the pistol grip whatever, you are not in 922r compliance.
14427H
Member
1998 letter "large capacity military magazine"
On April 6, 1998, ATF announced that the temporary ban on
importing most "sporting" thumbhole stocked semi-automatic rifles,
which was imposed on November 15, 1997, is now permanent. The
basis for this new ban is yet another re-interpretation of what is
a "sporting" firearm. ATF has decided that the ability of a semi-
automatic rifle to take a "large capacity military magazine" (LCMM)
is an unsporting feature. A LCMM is defined by ATF as a detachable
large capacity magazine that was originally designed and produced
for the military assault rifle from which the semi-automatic rifle
was derived. This is in addition to the features previously listed
in ATF's 1989 report. Thus any semi-automatic rifle which can take
a military magazine is no longer importable for general sale. ATF
wrote a second, long report justifying this sudden re-
interpretation of what constitutes a "sporting firearm", which is
available on the ATF WWW page. The URL for the report, in Adobe
PDF format, is:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/assault_rifles/complete.pdf.
How about this...so I buy a Saiga and it COMES WITH a 30 round magazine and run into the ATF. I am in big trouble?...er, well ...no.
The same letter states:
Note also that section 922(r) only bans "assembly", it is not
a crime to possess a weapon "assembled" in violation of this
section. However it may be subject to seizure and forfeiture, under
some circumstances, if ATF can show it was assembled in knowing or
willful violation of the Gun Control Act, under 18 U.S.C. section
924(d)(1), by clear and convincing evidence
They "may" take it away but you walk away if you bought it that way.
And don't forget bipods...
If the gun is a rifle of the sort subject to section 922(r)
(imported, semi-auto) that accepts a detachable magazine it may not
have:
* pistol grip (it may have a thumbhole stock)
* flash hider or threaded muzzle (a sporting muzzle brake
is OK)
* bipod (a sporting bipod is probably OK, one that clamps
on, or attaches by a swivel stud, and is not permanently
attached to the gun)
* bayonet lug
* folding or collapsing stock
* night sights (luminescent sights)
* grenade launcher
* threaded muzzle (except permanently covered by a nut, or
something similar)
* After April, 1998, it may not take a large capacity
military magazine
It's "probably OK". And see, the magazine issue is from tthe Clinton Ban.
Read this stuff long enough and you are very glad that 18th amendment was repealed.
Happy New Year.
On April 6, 1998, ATF announced that the temporary ban on
importing most "sporting" thumbhole stocked semi-automatic rifles,
which was imposed on November 15, 1997, is now permanent. The
basis for this new ban is yet another re-interpretation of what is
a "sporting" firearm. ATF has decided that the ability of a semi-
automatic rifle to take a "large capacity military magazine" (LCMM)
is an unsporting feature. A LCMM is defined by ATF as a detachable
large capacity magazine that was originally designed and produced
for the military assault rifle from which the semi-automatic rifle
was derived. This is in addition to the features previously listed
in ATF's 1989 report. Thus any semi-automatic rifle which can take
a military magazine is no longer importable for general sale. ATF
wrote a second, long report justifying this sudden re-
interpretation of what constitutes a "sporting firearm", which is
available on the ATF WWW page. The URL for the report, in Adobe
PDF format, is:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/assault_rifles/complete.pdf.
How about this...so I buy a Saiga and it COMES WITH a 30 round magazine and run into the ATF. I am in big trouble?...er, well ...no.
The same letter states:
Note also that section 922(r) only bans "assembly", it is not
a crime to possess a weapon "assembled" in violation of this
section. However it may be subject to seizure and forfeiture, under
some circumstances, if ATF can show it was assembled in knowing or
willful violation of the Gun Control Act, under 18 U.S.C. section
924(d)(1), by clear and convincing evidence
They "may" take it away but you walk away if you bought it that way.
And don't forget bipods...
If the gun is a rifle of the sort subject to section 922(r)
(imported, semi-auto) that accepts a detachable magazine it may not
have:
* pistol grip (it may have a thumbhole stock)
* flash hider or threaded muzzle (a sporting muzzle brake
is OK)
* bipod (a sporting bipod is probably OK, one that clamps
on, or attaches by a swivel stud, and is not permanently
attached to the gun)
* bayonet lug
* folding or collapsing stock
* night sights (luminescent sights)
* grenade launcher
* threaded muzzle (except permanently covered by a nut, or
something similar)
* After April, 1998, it may not take a large capacity
military magazine
It's "probably OK". And see, the magazine issue is from tthe Clinton Ban.
Read this stuff long enough and you are very glad that 18th amendment was repealed.
Happy New Year.
Last edited:
bluedesert17
Member
I'm thinking about trading my saiga .223 for a golani. Thoughts...
nalioth
Member
Thoughts?bluedesert17 said:
① It's rude to dig up ancient threads (on any board). Start a new one, please.
② Your question has been asked (and answered) dozens of times. Did you use the search feature?
Welcome to THR.
aka108
Member
Saigas are pretty nice. Nice enough for Arsenal, a company that used to mill their own recievers and trigger mechanisms, turn to converting Saigas to AK appearance and the price is up about 400 over the stock Saiga. I have one of the milled Arsenals and a Saiga in stock form. They shoot about the same. Neither truly has a edge of the other in the accuracy dept and neither one has ever jammed a round.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
Which would you rather have? Converted Saiga
Which is more fun to plink with? Draw
Which is easier to maintain? Draw
Which is cheaper to shoot? Draw
Which has a bigger after market? Difficult question. All Ak's are slightly different so they usually need a bit of bending or filing to make aftermarket parts fit. A standard converted Saiga is about as universal as anything else, i.e. it will most likely need bending and filing. However, lots of people convert so there are plenty of Saiga aftermarket parts.
Which is more accurate up to 150 yards? Converted Saiga
Which would you feel safer with (self defense)? Converted Saiga, then AK, then unconverted Saiga. An unconverted Saiga is not 922(r) compliant so it is illegal to put a high cap mag in it.
Which, out of the two, would be your choice as a first rifle and why? Converted Saiga.
Which is more fun to plink with? Draw
Which is easier to maintain? Draw
Which is cheaper to shoot? Draw
Which has a bigger after market? Difficult question. All Ak's are slightly different so they usually need a bit of bending or filing to make aftermarket parts fit. A standard converted Saiga is about as universal as anything else, i.e. it will most likely need bending and filing. However, lots of people convert so there are plenty of Saiga aftermarket parts.
Which is more accurate up to 150 yards? Converted Saiga
Which would you feel safer with (self defense)? Converted Saiga, then AK, then unconverted Saiga. An unconverted Saiga is not 922(r) compliant so it is illegal to put a high cap mag in it.
Which, out of the two, would be your choice as a first rifle and why? Converted Saiga.
nalioth
Member
ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT
Please mind your post dates, this one is 3 years old.
Please mind your post dates, this one is 3 years old.
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