Some interesting statistics regarding immigration

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Yeah, I think the Snopes link established that the numbers were made up. I think lists like this actually hurt those of us opposed to illegal immigration more than help. Some people might believe it out of hand, but most will check, and when they find out the numbers are fake, it damages the cause. I am not opposed to anyone coming to this country. I am not against foreigners. I myself grew up in Canada, and all of my family are Canadian. I am in fact an "anchor baby" so to speak, as I was born in the USA while my father was attending college. I was the lucky one in my family, and I have several family members who would like to become Americans, but have difficulty with the time and expense it will take to become one. That is what is frustrating to me and to them. If you want to come from Canada, please wait in line, spend thousands of dollars, and wait a minimum of 7 years. If you want to come from Mexico, well just come on in! I am opposed to people coming to this country illegally. If we as a country decide that more immigrants are needed, wanted, permitted, then fine, let's change the immigration laws. No problem. At least these people will then be in the system. They will be accountable. They will have a stake, and they will feel much more committed. Plus, they will be less of a drain on resources as they will pay at least some of their own way.

And for those who think that the only people who oppose illegal immigration are those afraid of competition from other workers, that doesn't apply to me either. I'm an attorney, so I'm not facing any competition from illegals. I do, however, support those who make the argument that illegal labor is unfair competition. Take my line of work, for example. Because I have to pay taxes (property, self employment, income, etc.) and health insurance premiums, and auto insurance, I have a certain level of cost that I have to build into my rates. My competitors have the same costs, so our rates end up looking similar. If, however, I can avoid paying taxes and insurance premiums, my costs can decrease. If I can push that cost onto society, then I can "compete" better with my competitors. But, it is unfair competition. If illegal aliens were required to pay taxes and insurance like the rest of us, they would not be able to work for nearly what they work for now, and the problem would be largely solved. I read one person's solution is to require that all employers pay the same wage to everyone, regardless of immigration status. That way, employers would have no incentive to hire illegals given that they are saving no money. Good idea, except that it would work about as well as gun control, given that employers who are hiring illegals are already breaking the law, so why would we think they'll obey the law regarding pay.

One final point. I find it interesting that many of the same people who criticize US corporations for "exploiting" third world employees in third world countries are not criticizing US corproations for exploiting those same employees when they come to the US. If I opened a branch office of a lawn care business in Mexico and only paid my employees $5 a day, I'd be a scum bag. But pay them that in the US, and it will be overlooked, because to make waves about it would be to hurt the flow of illegals "willing to come here and do jobs Americans won't do."
 
Keep bringing in aliens--by the millions yearly--who don't want to assimilate and let them work "off the books" and put their families on public subsidies at taxpayer expense. Do it in defiance of The Law. See what kind of a country you have in ten years--or if you have a country at all. This is utterly basic; that we should even be "debating" whether our nation needs borders and cultural cohesion on political essentials shows how brain-addled America has become.
 
Much of this is moot so long as we have political administrations, in cahoots with power-grabbers and commercial pimps, who care nothing about either The Law or Nationhood. The real problem emanates from two capitols, Washington, D.C. and Mexico City; the rest is a symptom, however corrosive in its effects.

Yesterday two Border Patrol agents were sentenced to 11 and 12 years respectively for what looks to most of us like Just Doing Their Job. Our own Gov't was against them. And now the illegal alien drug smuggler claiming victim status is suing US for $5 million. Ugly. Apparently the BP is getting in the way of The Master Plan, so they will be sacrificed. Outrage? Outcry? Where?
 
Keep bringing in aliens--by the millions yearly--who don't want to assimilate and let them work "off the books" and put their families on public subsidies at taxpayer expense. Do it in defiance of The Law. See what kind of a country you have in ten years-

Correct, it's simply the huge numbers, we continue to allow millions into this
country most who have no skills and very little education, we export jobs,
our middle classes is under attack each day and for those who feel they will
continue to own firearms in a rich/poor country is simply naive. We are changing folks and not in a good way.
 
Longeyes, I saw that news story, and I am outraged. I have sent letters to my representatives asking them where they stand on this issue.
 
It saddens me a little that someone can post a blatently false set of information and that members of this site will actually say that it doesnt really matter that the numbers are completely made up, it's still "essentially" true. Being "right" is more than having an opinion, it is a devotion to truth. If what the author was saying were actually true, then they wouldnt have to make up their data. When you start to willingly believe information that you know to be fabricated you have crossed the line from reason into zealotry.
 
so,c. yeager are you saying illegal immigration is not a real problem?
 
We out here in flyover country would dearly love to quantify what we see each and every day. We would love to be able to put our hands on reliable statistics but we can't. Best we can do is compare stats from various advocacy groups. Why?????? Because the federales and the states do not publish statistics related to the impact of illegal immigration IF THE STATISTICS ARE GATHERED IN THE FIRST PLACE. Why? governmental policy is at variance with the expressed will of Joe and Martha Sixpack. To publish the stats would be to confirm what the great unwashed suspect. Statistics would bear witness to a government out of control.

Yes, the source of the statistics in this case may well be suspect. That does not mean there is no problem. It means the government is flat out scared of demonstrating the problem for fear of the reaction.

The validity of any government supplied statistic is a subject for another thread. In the case if illegal immigration I adopt the 2-1/2 philosophy. Take any statistics batted around by goverment advocates regarding immigration and either hit it with a 2x or 1/2x factor, which ever put the governments position in a worse light. Example, 12 million illegals in the US--2 x 12 equals 24 million is a more realistic figure.

There is no one so blind as those who will not see.
 
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Keep bringing in aliens--by the millions yearly--who don't want to assimilate and let them work "off the books" and put their families on public subsidies at taxpayer expense. Do it in defiance of The Law. See what kind of a country you have in ten years--or if you have a country at all. This is utterly basic; that we should even be "debating" whether our nation needs borders and cultural cohesion on political essentials shows how brain-addled America has become.

I think you have a bit of a "sky is falling" attitude. Illegal immigration is nothing new. It's just one of today's hotbutton issues.. Im not saying it's right, but I'm not buying into this idea that the country is going to collaspe because of illegal Mexicans. If that were the case, it should have happened by now considering this problem is over a century old.

I like Glenn Beck's cartoon here.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=750Ka3PIKds
 
i have heard what might be called Mexican Patriots,that is those who would rather fix their country rather than bail out,remark how ironic it is the only part of mexico that got stolen was the part with hospitals,interstates,plumbing,etc.
 
I think you have a bit of a "sky is falling" attitude. Illegal immigration is nothing new. It's just one of today's hotbutton issues.. Im not saying it's right, but I'm not buying into this idea that the country is going to collaspe because of illegal Mexicans. If that were the case, it should have happened by now considering this problem is over a century old.

I'm sure you realize the numbers are a bit different, as is the political and social climate of the U.S. People define "collapse" in different ways. I think it is unrealistic to expect that a massive influx of Mexicans would produce anything other than a Mexico-inside-the-U.S. You decide how desirable that would be. The only reason I don't necessarily expect this to cause a collapse, frankly, is that I am certain there will be various forms of counter-reaction, some probably rather dramatic, to derail the train of illegal immigration in the coming years.
 
Obviously the number is higher today, but I wonder if the higher numbers of illegals are somewhat proportional to population growth. Since illegal immigration is labor-driven, it would seem that the more people we have in the US, the more illegals are needed to pick grapes
 
But what are the realities

Please remember, the main reason why so many illegals have made it in largely has to do with the fact that many people with heavy economic interests believe that we need the immigrants.

1. They depress wages (who benefits from lower wages?)
2. They provide competition to socially and politically homogeneous labor groups and populations (who benefits from competing with union labor or other homogeneous working class voting blocks?)
3. They shift social service dollars (such as healthcare) away from corporate interests and to social agencies (see the pattern?)
4. They fill voids in our demographic breakdown caused by low birth rates and an aging population. (Perhaps Mexicans don't have the distribution of skilled labor we need in all areas, but they aren't the only immigrant group coming in droves)

According to several "mainstream" media sources the most credible studies on the economic impact of illegals is an 8% - 12% decline in wages among the least skilled elements of our populations. Basically poor, uneducated Americans. Many studies show that among middle and uppler class populations, there is a correlation between high immigrant populations and increased affluence. Think about it. A city like Jacksonville FL has a huge construction boom, a growing upper class, a growing professional class, etc. The huge construction boom has led to a large influx of illegal labor associated with construction and landscaping trades. (Mexicans, Salvadorans, Bosnians, Russians and some African groups) -- This has probably hurt the poorest population here, but correlates nicely with a city that is growing in prosperity outside of the poorest population.

While I worry about the cultural impact of all of the non-English speaking immigrants I am dismayed when I realize how many people who oppose immigration really do so for more racist reasons than anything else. Many people simply fear the "browning" of America, a reality that is inevitable because of birthrates alone. I think that future stability in the US will rely on plans to culturally assimilate as many of the immigrants as possible to prevent the situation in Europe where immigrants were brought in by the millions (because of demographic/aging problems also linked to our immigrant situation) but where the immigrants were never allowed into the mainstream culturally, legally or politically. Hence Europe ended up with a very alienated population in their midst. That is never a good situation.

Ultimately, what we need is a plan to renew American values, culture, etc. understanding that "Americans" will look somewhat different than they did before. This isn't the first time the US has dealt with cultural assimilation, and won't be the last. -- And, yes, every criticism about "those people" not wanting to learn English, assimilate, be part of the US, etc. was made about pretty much every immigrant group before.

Isnofar as the source of the illegal immigration, we should not be naive to assume that "they" are here ONLY because of a porous border. "They" are here because people and institutions in power felt "they" were needed for economic reasons. -- If they US went away from a model of corporate-responsiblity for healthcare, for example, I bet the demand for illegal labor would decrease.
 
Irony. We stole Texas away from Mexico. Now they're getting it back!

We annexed Texas as an independent nation in the 1840's, then we bought New Mexico, Arizona, and all other territory that was part of Mexico. We bought Alaska too, should we give it back to the Russians? How about we return the land from the Louisiana Purchase to France? Get your facts in line, we did not steal their land.
 
so,c. yeager are you saying illegal immigration is not a real problem?

No, but its clearly a smaller problem that some advocates think, otherwise they wouldnt have to falsify their information.
 
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