TAC vs A2230/X-Terminator for .223

[ngnrd]

First, I just want to confirm that Accurate's 2230 is the same powder as Ramshot's X-Terminator. Everything I read says it is, and there is no difference in their respective manufacturer's published load data. Is this correct?

Second, when looking at forum threads across the Web, there seems to be a pretty solid consensus that TAC is better for heavier bullets in the 223 (>60gr), and A2230/X-T is better for the lighter bullets. But, when looking at Ramshot's current published data (Edition 4.5), the velocities between the two powders are so close it's not really worth quibbling about. Bullet weight just doesn't seem to have much bearing on which powder would be better. A2230/X-T just gets there using slightly less powder.

For instance, as listed in Ramshot's Load Guide:
Sierra 50gr BK: 25.4gr of X-T gives 3,435fps, and 26.4gr of TAC gives 3,428fps
Sierra 65gr SBT: 23.4gr of X-T gives 2,982fps, and 24.3gr of TAC gives 2,986fps
Sierra 80grHPBT:23.1gr of X-T gives 2,732fps, and 24.3gr of TAC gives 2,749fps

So, what am I missing here? I have both powders on hand, and can play around a bit with various loads. Is there any reason I should stick with TAC for the heavies and A2230/X-T for the featherweights? I certainly don't want to just waste components repeating somebody else's experiments, but I don't want to exclude a possibly great combination based on an old wives tale either.

For reference, the heaviest bullets I'll likely be loading is Nosler's 64gr Bonded Performance bullet, and the lightest may possibly be Barnes' 45gr TSX-FB. And although I'll certainly be loading up various versions of plinking/target ammo where it won't really matter, I'm mostly concerned about getting the best performance (precision first, with velocity a very close second) out of the hunting ammo.

What say the oracles of The High Road? Is it really going to matter which powder I use? Are there other criteria I haven't considered?


As a side note, I also have H335 and CFE223 to experiment with, and have a couple of load tests of each waiting for the weather to cooperate so I can shoot 'em over the chrony. But, I'm mostly curious about the TAC vs A2230/X-T scenario.

 

[gab909]

Which one can you get? That is the big question

 

[NWcityguy2]

When I ordered 2 jugs of Ramshot X last year, they came in a never open box that was labeled Accurate 2230. I think the comments on bullet weights are people repeating Ramshot's marketing personally. They wanted to create a Varmint hunter powder and an AR powder and did it with pictures, but AA2230 was never a light bullet only powder.

Which one can you get? That is the big question

And yet interestingly enough, not his question.

 

[ngnrd]

Thanks NWcityguy. That info backs up the rest of the information I've seen regarding A2230 and X-Terminator being the same powder.

And, your comments regarding platform specific marketing are interesting. I wonder if there's any evidence from users (anecdotal or otherwise) that TAC performs better with the heavier bullets when fired from the (typically) shorter barrels of the AR-variant rifles versus the A2230 when using lighter bullets in the (typically) longer barrels of dedicated varmint rifles... Like maybe the light/short combination is a detriment to using the A2230?

Ramshot's published data uses the same barrel length for both of the powders.

Maybe instead of "heavy bullet --> use TAC", it would be more appropriate to say "longer barrel --> use A2230"...?

I dunno... I'm just trying to figure out where the original premise came from, and I can't really find any justifiable basis.

 

[mtrmn]

I get good performance from both with 55gr, 62gr and 69gr in both 16" and 20" barrels. I have good accuracy nodes for all my 5 AR15's with both powders and all 3 bullet weights. At the moment my favorite plinking/utility load that seems to work well in all of them is 24.5 to 25 gr TAC w/55gr fmj.

I find 2 accuracy nodes, one a light load and one will be near max. For any serious endeavor, I'll fine-tune the hotter of the 2 loads for the best groups and run with it. I care not about velocity as long as it's accurate. You'll never penetrate that Kevlar helmet at 500 meters if you can't hit it.....

 

[ngnrd]

Thanks mtrmn. I know you said you don't care about velocity, but have you shot any of your loads over a chrony? If so, did you find any significant velocity differences between the two powders at the upper accuracy nodes with a given bullet?

 

[mtrmn]

I have some figures written down in my notebook at home, unfortunately I'm at work offshore and don't have access to that info. Also, I don't think my velocity testing is thorough enough to answer your question since I personally didn't care that much and tested just maybe 1 shot string for sh%$s and grins.

I see you're in the great white north while I'm in the tropical jungles of Louisiana. I bet we could chrono the exact same loads and get vastly different results as well.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, we just set our priorities a bit differently. I'm willing to bet our priorities would align on other matters in this day and age.

 

[ngnrd]

Yeah, I'm not really looking for absolute numbers, just relative velocities between the accuracy nodes of the two powders. Maybe somebody else will chime in.

If not, I'll just work up as many combinations that it takes to figure out what works best for the components I have for my rifle anyways. I'm really just curious about all the threads I found saying the TAC would be better than the A2230 for the heavier bullets. And I was just hoping to limit wasting components for testing. I have plenty of powder, but bullets and primers are pretty hard to come by these days.

 

[mtrmn]

Yeah, I stocked up after the last election scare and have all I NEED. But I don't think I'll ever have all I WANT.

 

[Bad Andy]

AA2460 is a great powder that falls between both of those powders and shoots great in all those bullets weights. AA2460 is the only powder I use in 223.