Tennessee: "Lawmakers kill bill to broaden gun permits"

[cuchulainn]

http://www.tennessean.com/government/archives/03/03/30707407.shtml?Element_ID=30707407

from Tennessean.com

Lawmakers kill bill to broaden gun permits
By ANNE PAINE
Staff Writer

A proposal that would let handgun permit holders carry a loaded shotgun, rifle or other firearm anywhere they can take a handgun was shot down yesterday in a House subcommittee.

The subcommittee abruptly adjourned after acting on only two of about a dozen gun-related bills that would broaden the state's gun laws, after heated responses by Rep. Ben West, sponsor of the bills, to a series of questions posed mainly by Rep. Rob Briley.

Briley, D-Nashville, asked for the adjournment, saying it didn't appear there could be a ''civilized discussion'' of the issues yesterday.

West, D-Hermitage, showed his agitation early in the meeting after Briley asked if the bill would allow any permit holder to carry a rifle, shotgun or other firearm anywhere.

''They could, in reality,'' West snapped. ''But the question is, would they? They would not.''

The purpose of the bill is to make it legal for farmers who leave their own property to keep a shotgun or rifle that they might need on their farm, for instance, hung up in the cab of their pickup, he said.

The Tennessee Firearms Association, the National Rifle Association and others are supporting the proposal, he said. The change would make the Handgun Carry Permit law into the Firearm Carry Permit law.

The General Assembly passed the handgun law in 1996, to make the process of qualifying for a handgun permit uniform throughout the state, a Safety Department official said during the meeting of the House Judiciary constitutional protections subcommittee. About 137,000 Tennesseans have permits to carry handguns, which can be loaded.

''The definition of 'firearm' is much more expansive,'' Briley said to West. A handgun has less than a 12-inch barrel.

''You can have your shotgun in the vehicle with you if it's unloaded,'' he added, questioning why this bill is needed.

West responded that anyone with a permit has been thoroughly checked out by law enforcement officials.

''These are people who are law-abiding citizens who you are downgrading,'' he told Briley, accusing him of not respecting the 137,000 handgun permit holders.

Briley said he was not ''downgrading'' anyone, but that he had questions and concerns about making such a change in the law.

Rep. Chris Newton, R-Cleveland, subcommittee chairman, cautioned that Second Amendment issues tend to make ''emotions run high'' and that everyone should stay on target.

The bill was rejected in a voice vote, with slightly more lawmakers voting against it.

The next bill would allow private employees with a handgun permit to keep a firearm in their vehicle on their employer's property. When Briley questioned West about what the bill did and also about the word ''firearm'' in the text, West again grew testy.

''It does what it says,'' West said. ''You've got the bill in front of you.

''Take it or leave it,'' he said.

The adjournment followed immediately.

© Copyright 2003 The Tennessean

 

[MitchSchaft]

Damn!
It was worth a shot.

 

[tyme]

''You can have your shotgun in the vehicle with you if it's unloaded,'' he added, questioning why this bill is needed.

Great. Nothing like bringing an unloaded firearm to a gunfight.

 

[MitchSchaft]

Here's a message from the man that heads up and does all the work for the TFA's legislative action committee. He's as pissed as me!

I would normally put this at the end but you are getting it right up front on a point of personal privilege:

IF CALLS DO NOT START TO YOUR LEGISLATORS TO PUT PRESSURE ON THEIR PEERS IN THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, PRINCIPALLY THE DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS, THEN I HAVE LITTLE IF ANY HOPE OF MAKING PROGRESS ON THE LEGISLATION AND BILLS THAT YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY TOLD ME YOU WANT. SINCE THIS IS MY DONATED TIME - I AM SELFISH. I DO NOT HAVE THE DESIRE TO GO OVER TO THE LEGISLATURE TO ASSIST ON THESE MATTERS WHEN IT APPEARS THAT VERY FEW IF ANY ARE WORKING TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO ARE STONEWALLING THESE BILLS. IF PERMIT HOLDERS, TFA AND NRA MEMBERS CANNOT MUSTER A GRASSROOTS REVOLT - PERHAPS I NEED TO STAY IN MY LAW OFFICE AND WORK ON THINGS THAT ARE PERSONALLY PRODUCTIVE.

WE HAVE AT LEAST 137,000 PERMIT HOLDERS - I would estimate the active number statewide to be less than .01% - Rising to the occassion when we have an election will not get the job done. This is not the 4th of July where we shoot fireworks once a year. YOUR RIGHTS are in jeopardy. Gun Owners must be ever present guards at the doors of our liberties or the liberal thieves will ransack our rights like grave robbers.

Legislative Updates:

The House Judiciary's new Constitutional Protections Subcommittee had its first round of gun bills on March 25, 2003. It was a predictable disappointment mostly evidenced along party lines. The Committee is chaired by Chris Newton (R), who has been a supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights for many years. It is co-chaired by Henri "no pledge" Brooks (D). The remaining members are Rob Briley (D); Kim McMillan (D); Jerome Cochran (R); Kent Coleman (R); and Paul Stanley (R).

The Committee had the opportunity to hear most of the bills that Rep. Ben West (D) has sponsored for TFA this year. It only considered 2 and only voted on one of those. Rep. West spoke in favor of "137,000" handgun permit holders - Rob Briley spoke on behalf of the "other" 4.5 million Tenneseans.

On HB 1603, to convert the handgun permit to a "firearms" permit; Rep Newton wanted to make clear that the bill would have the effect of allowing someone to carrying a shotgun under a trench coat - if they wanted to - and it does. Rep. Newton however repeatedly stated his belief that it would not happen given the history of handgun permit holders - but acknowledged that "technically" that bill would allow it. Rep. Briley then took up the microphone and started asking questions. Soon after the discussion started between Rep. West and Briley, both ostensibly Nashville Democrats, Rep. Newton cautioned the committee that emotions can run high when the 2nd Amendment is discussed and requested decorum in the discussion. Rep. Briley's questions, while relevant in some respects, leaned heavily on his legal training vis-a-vis Rep. West's 2nd Amendment and business background. Rep. Briley, wanted to know for example, if the defined term of "firearm" would allow permit holders to carry things such as bazookas and grenade launchers. Rep. West responded it was intended to deal with "real life" in rural areas of the state as well as the occassional problems with people returning from hunting/ranges and failing to fully unloaded or adequately separate the ammunition from the rifle/shotgun. The bill was not "defeated" is failed to pass but Chairman Newton "retained" it in committee.

The second bill generated an equal amount of emotion leading to a motion by Briley to "adjourn" the meeting thereby effectively cutting off debate. The purpose of the second bill is to allow permit holders the opportunity to leave their weapons stored in their transportation (car, truck) while at work if the workplace is posted by sign or firearms are prohibited in the employee manual.

SB 1077*
HB 1603
CRIMINAL LAW: Concealed carry permits.
Redefines "handgun" to "firearm" in the concealed carry permit law. (S: Jackson; H: West)
Senate Status: Referred to Senate Judiciary.
House Status: Failed in House Judiciary Constitutional Protections Subcommittee 03/25/2003.



SB 1080*
HB 1617
CRIMINAL LAW: Firearm permit holder allowed to keep gun in car.
Allows a private employee with a firearm permit to keep a gun in such employees motor vehicle on their employers' property as long as such firearms are kept in employee's motor vehicle. (S: Jackson; H: West)
Senate Status: Referred to Senate Judiciary.
House Status: House Judiciary Constitutional Protections Subcommittee deferred to 04/01/2003.



Other events to note

SB 0568
HB 0864
CRIMINAL LAW: Handgun permit safety course.
Requires a handgun permit holder to complete a handgun safety course to maintain or renew a permit. (S: Ford J.; H: Brooks, Henri)
Senate Status: Taken off notice in Senate Judiciary.
House Status: Withdrawn in House 03/24/2003

BILL WAS OPPOSED BY TFA




SB 0569*
HB 0867
CRIMINAL LAW: Personalized handguns.
Defines personalized handgun as any handgun which automatically limits its operational use so that it can only be fired by an authorized user. Prohibits after the date of this act any manufacturer or dealer from transporting into this state any handgun which is not a personalized handgun. Commissions the department of safety to prepare a list of handguns that may be transported into this state. Instructs that this act shall not apply to handguns used by the state or local law enforcement, federal officers, and members of the armed forces. Establishes as a Class E felony the violations of this act. (S: Ford J.; H: Brooks, Henri)
Senate Status: Taken off notice in Senate Judiciary.
House Status: House Judiciary Constitutional Protections Subcommittee deferred to 04/01/2003.

BILL WAS OPPOSED BY TFA

SB 0604*
HB 0914
CRIMINAL LAW: Possession of firearm by public establishments.
Allows an establishment that is open to the public, serves alcohol or beer, and derives 51% or more of its gross annual revenue from the sale of food to possess a firearm. (S: Norris; H: Hargett)
Senate Status: Senate Judiciary deferred to 04/08/2003.
House Status: Referred to House Judiciary.

THIS BILL IS ONE OF SEVERAL ADDRESSING THE POSSESSION OF FIREARMS IN RESTAURANTS. At this point, the restaurant lobby OPPOSES the bill and others like it. TFA counters that the bill would not restrict the restaurants from "posting" the properties on an individual basis - but the restaurants refuse that option and, according to their representatives, prefer for the state to absolutely ban possession of firearms by permit holdres in all places where alcoholic beverages are served - even if the individual is not consuming alcohol.


SB 0796
HB 0594*
CRIMINAL LAW: Noise pollution at shooting ranges.
Exempts noise pollution restrictions only if hours of operation of sport shooting ranges are limited to 9 a.m. to 8 p.m., Monday through Friday; 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., Saturday; and 1 p.m. to 5 p.m., Sunday. (S: Person; H: Pleasant)
Senate Status: Referred to Senate Judiciary.
House Status: House Judiciary Constitutional Protections Subcommittee deferred to 04/01/2003

THIS BILL MUST BE OPPOSED!!!! House Sponsor stated it was to "get the attention" of the gun club in Shelby County which was the subject of complaints by neighbors to repeated shotgun activity. The Bill would have the effect of limiting the hours of all public and private ranges. The bill DOES NOT distinguish between indoor and outdoor ranges. The bill would effectively prohibit night training classes. THE BILL WOULD EFFECTIVELY PRECLUDE THE ABILITY TO HAVE ANY TYPE OF WEEKEND COMPETITIONS OR TOURNAMENTS THAT COULD NOT BE CONLCUDED IN 8 hours on a SATURDAY or 4 hours on a SUNDAY!!!!!



It took me an hour this morning to write this summary, it took close to 5 hours on Tuesday to participate in the hearing and meetings prior to and thereafter, it took 2 hours on Monday to meet with Rep. West and review the bills. That is 8 hours - a full working day - in one week that I could have spent at work, with my family or doing anything else of personal interest. In addition to my time, Darren LaSorte the NRA's lobbyist flew in and is working all week on these bills.

 

[MitchSchaft]

From a local TFA member:

The Tennessean reporter is wrong. The bill was not killed, it failed on motion. The Chairman Chris Newton retained the bill in committee - it can come for another vote. Actually, at the time of the vote we had 3 Republicans and 4 Democrats voting - party lines again. And the Democrats want us to believe that they support the 2nd Amendment?

 

[JCOJR]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tennessean reporter is wrong. The bill was not killed, it failed on motion. The Chairman Chris Newton retained the bill in committee - it can come for another vote. Actually, at the time of the vote we had 3 Republicans and 4 Democrats voting - party lines again. And the Democrats want us to believe that they support the 2nd Amendment?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Remember the person pushing this bill the most is Rep. Ben West, a long time Democrat. He's a staunch 2A backer.

Let's tell the sub-commitee how we feel:

[email protected] (R) Chair

[email protected] (D) Co-Chair

[email protected] (D)

[email protected] (R)

[email protected] (D)

[email protected] (D)

[email protected] (R)


__________________

 

[beckrodgers]

tennessee

Dontwant to sound ugly ,we told you so , on uther posts/threads.I believe it has gone to to far for the LLAAAWW MAAAKKEERS to turn back, short of force& I dont mean any disrespect but it wont get any better& I dont have the answer short of ..........

 

[MitchSchaft]

The sad part is, it's the people's fault. Nobody will get off their keister to make a simple phone call or write an email to contact and let these people know how they feel. That's all it boils down to, man.

 

[Standing Wolf]

And the Democrats want us to believe that they support the 2nd Amendment?

Yeah, and it's going to rain nickels later this evening, too.