Texas CHL & traffic law??

[Aguila Blanca]

Westex -

Based on the law as quoted above in this thread, that's correct, and Brad Johnson is incorrect. To further your summary, if you are not carrying a concealed weapon not only do you not have to display your CHL when asked for ID, you don't even need to carry your CHL. In fact, there are valid reasons why if you aren't packin' heat you also should not be packin' the paper that suggests you might be carrying.

 

[westex]

Hawkmoon
You've peaked my curiosity. Why shouldn't you carry your CHL when not packing?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Hawkmoon is right and I am wrong. Accoring to section 411.205, it does indeed state that "...the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license."

So, to amend my summary above

- If you are carrying you are required to have your CHL with you.

- If you are carrying and an LEO asks to see your identification you are required to present your ID and your CHL.

- If you are not carrying you are not required to have your CHL with you, although it is strongly suggested that you present it anyway as a gesture of goodwill and cooperation with the LEO.

Brad

 

[birdv]

Tell the LEO that you are a CHL, because it is going to come up on the computer anyway.

 

[Smoke]

If you are not carrying you are not required to have your CHL with you, although it is strongly suggested that you present it anyway as a gesture of goodwill and cooperation with the LEO.

I hate to be argumentative, but this seems rather pointless.

I can be very cooperative and show goodwill without giving out information that is not necessary. Why incumber the LEO with another ID when it is not needed.

Might just be me.

Smoke

 

[westex]

Smoke
No, it is not just you. I also offer the minimum required by law in all matters, not just CHL matters. I see so reason to allow the powers that be to over step their boundries even a hair. If they become accustomed to getting away with any samll overreach then have a tendency to crank it up a notch when they think they can get away with it.

I don't know how many times I've called some doctors receptionist hand or some government bureaucrats hand regarding a document or SSN they said was required. Did they like it? Nope. Will I do it again? You betcha. You don't have to be rude just know the law and stick to it and make sure the other side does also.

 

[mercedesrules]

I'm suspicious that the state promoted shoulder belts so that the cops could see them.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Smoke and westex,

Think about it from a tactical standpoint (in terms of psychological tactics, not physical)...

You offer your DL and CHL to the trooper. He says "Are you carrying today?" You say "Not today". The subject is closed and the trooper goes on about his business. You have presented him with no reason to not trust you, and you have made a goodwill gesture that most LEOs will respect and reciprocate.

On the other hand...

You hand the officer your DL only and give them "only the basics". They go back and run your DL and licence plate. The CHL comes up. Now they are wondering why you didn't say anything about it. It raises a red flag and creates a concern that they will want justified. Now you get to suffer through the twenty questions routine.

Scenario one- You have been forthright and made a pro-active gesture of trust and respect. The human response is to reciprocate that trust and respect. The officer will have the information eventually, you have just made their lives easier by giving it to them before they had to go to the trouble of looking it up. You've also presented them with the perfect opportunity to hand you (Mr. Nice Citizen) your DL and CHL back and tell you to "Slow it down and have a nice day", and they will often do just that.

Scenario two - You have created a situation where the officer is now in a reactive situation, which invokes a whole host of negative possibilities in his/her mind. Now it's not an issue of your CHL, it's now an issue of "Why didn't they tell me that before?" Now they are running through all the possibilities in their head. The training will most likely kick in and now they are in a tactically reactive situation instead of a generic traffic stop. Not a good thing, and definitely not something conducive to them wishing you a nice day and sending you on your way.

As always, the best Defense is a good Offense. I've found my CHL to be the next best thing to a Get Out of Ticket Free card when used properly. It's a way to work something to your advantage using information the officer will eventually have anyway. It would be silly not to capitalize on it.

Brad

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Westex --

One reason not to carry the permit w/o the gun is ... what happens if you are held up, and the goblin has you empty your pockets? Now he (or his partner) starts pawing through your stuff and finds a handgun license. I doubt he's going to be polite like a cop and ask, "And are you carrying today, Sir?" He's more than likely to assume you are carrying, therefore you are a risk to him, therefore you will be shot on the spot.

Y'all are free to do as you wish. As far as I know, not one single state that recognizes my licenses requires me to carry the license when I'm not carrying the gun, so I NEVER carry the license when I'm not packing.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Now he (or his partner) starts pawing through your stuff and finds a handgun license.

Oh, now that's just silly....

Do you really think if they are pawing through your stuff that they will fail to notice the large lump of gun-shaped metal and plastic attached to your body before they find that teeny little piece of laminated paper?



Safe Shootin'

Brad

 

[Smoke]

What? I'm agreeing with Brad?

Thats a little too far fetched Hawk. If a bad guy has me empty my pockets, he will probably scoop the whole pile up to get the heck out of there and sort it out later.

I'm still in disagreement on the issue of presenting the CHL to a cop when I'm not carrying. Which actually is a moot point as even when I don't have a gun physically on me, there is one in the vehicle somewhere.

Our disagreement might be a reflection of the enviroments we live in even with in the confines of the TX border. Lubbock is more metropolitan than Bosque County, and thats saying something.

Regards,

Smoke

 

[Brad Johnson]

What? I'm agreeing with Brad?

REPENT, FOR THE END IS NEAR!


Lubbock, metropolitan? Well, we do have a Krispy Kreme now. And Hooters will be opening soon....

Brad

 

[Art Eatman]

A CHL buddy of mine has been stopped four times for excessive enthusiasm with the gas pedal. All four times, he's either gotten off scott-free after a bull session about guns, or gotten the undeserved break of just a warning ticket.

Now, more often than not there's Lil Pet resting all comfy in the console of my truck. Even were I driving around "bare-bottomed", I'd still hand the CHL and the DL to the LEO. I'll take any break I can get.

The SSN deal? That's an issue of identity theft, not "infringement", to me. Any bureaucracy wants "other ID", I happily show them my CHL. Amazing how after a glance at it, an increased level of politeness occurs. I love politeness.

, Art

 

[Johnny Guest]

Things are not NEARLY so dramatic - - -

sevenpoint62mm wrote:

In Texas you have to surrender your CHL card with your DL/Insurance. Period. You don't not have to tell him if you are or are not armed unless he asks but its a good idea to with th elocation and tpye your carrying.

What happens if you don't? Well as soon as he runs your licences he sees this:

***********************************************************
___________________________________________________________
***********************************************************
WARNING WARNING! THIS PERSON HAS A CHL PERMIT IS CONSIDERED ARMED

WARNING WARNING! THIS PERSON HAS A CHL PERMIT IS CONSIDERED ARMED

*************************************************************
____________________________________________________________
*************************************************************

Its red, flashing, and scares the hell out of a cop even if she's 19 year old blonde princess with pigtails. Its an arrestable offense btw and can get your CHL yanked.

There’s no use in overstating the situation, even if the truth is less dramatic. Gillster stated it correctly above, in his entry of 7 JUN at 1:30 a.m. CDT - - He quoted directly from Texas Government Code, Section 411.205: IF a license holder is carrying a handgun . . . .

Texas Administrative Code, Title 37, section 6.43, states the same thing, in practically the identical language, under FAILURE TO DISPLAY LICENSE ON DEMAND.

And, if and when the officer runs the driver’s license or state ID card, the computer printout shows: “Notice: This person holds a Concealed Handgun License.†No flashing display, no red letters, no “WARNING WARNING!†with exclamation points. No words, “Is considered armed.†No two lines of capital letters.

I’m going by what the printout shows the agency communications person. I’ve seen a number of these printouts. Some agencies with mobile data terminals in the patrol cars might have their software programmed to make such an overdramatic display, but I haven’t seen it.

And, . . . scares the hell out of a cop even if she's 19 year old blonde princess with pigtails. How would that be? One must be age 21 to even apply for a CHL. Street cops are trained to be careful of EVERYONE they stop. If a person has a CHL, he’s been through a background check by some skeptical State Trooper, and has no criminal record, nor even a pending charge. If anything, the notice tells the cop, “This is a law abiding person who conforms to the law before carrying a pistol.“ I’d be a lot more worried about the person who did NOT have a carry license.

Best,
Johnny

 

[westex]

Well put Johnny. Exactly what I was about to say but would have taken a lot longer to say it.

Who's the most worried, the 21 year old CHL pony tailed blonde pulled over at night on some deserted stretch of highway by a car with blinking lights while she remains seated and some guy approaching from the rear with his hand resting on the butt of a semi or a 35 year old LEO whose screen just showed the stopped occupant(s) ahead has been checked out by the FBI, passed tests, and is a all round swell guy ,etc.?

Personally I'm not very concerned about getting a ticket as I long ago learned saving a couple of minutes just aint worth the hassle. Life's too short to end it wrapped around a telephone pole.