The Best Miltary Sniper rifle (for it's time)
- Thread starter blackops
- Start date
- Status
The merits of the Mosin Nagant didn't hold back the Sixth Army - the city of Stalingrad did. You could just as easily chalk it up to the PPSh-41 or any other Soviet small arm. They could have held that city armed with just shovels, as the mere act of advancing into its dense cityscape nullified all tactical and strategic advantages that the Wehrmacht carried.
That's nonsense. You stated yourself that the Mosin was a better gun because the Russians knew how to maintain them, and consequently built better rifles? And yet low incidence rates and good maintenance for German snipers is irrelevant? I've never heard of a German sniper who was killed or failed to make a kill due to a frozen gun; this is a discussion about sniper rifles, so it's a natural consequence that it should involve the people that operate them too as the trained sniper is central to the platform. How can one classify the Mosin-Nagant as one of the greatest snipers, based on kills, if kills are entirely a feat of the people operating them?
I'm sure Mosins froze too; I honestly think the issue concerning the Karabiner 98 and all small arms is overstated. Besides, it was of less consequence to the Germans even if a few of their rifles froze - what was more disconcerting was when their MG42's iced up, given that German army units were 'machine-gun heavy'; relying on them to do most of the heavy lifting in any given infantry squad. However, that is outside the scope of this discussion. The Germans eventually began to learn the merits of properly lubricating their weapons and similarly used Kerosene-mixed oils (probably something borrowed from the Soviets, but these oils needed frequent re-application) and sunflower-based oils near the warmer Caucasian regions, where it was available. I couldn't give you an exact date, but I think around 1942 is an educated guess, and probably saw a serious decline of weapons being rendered inoperable.
Granted, the German Sixth army didn't have the luxury of lubricating oils after they were encircled by the Red Army, but an argument against the Karabiner 98 could hardly be made for that either. It's just circumstantial logistics; is the K98 a worse rifle because its troops have run out of ammunition? Cleaning supplies? I think not.
Jeff56 said:
That's nonsense. You stated yourself that the Mosin was a better gun because the Russians knew how to maintain them, and consequently built better rifles? And yet low incidence rates and good maintenance for German snipers is irrelevant? I've never heard of a German sniper who was killed or failed to make a kill due to a frozen gun; this is a discussion about sniper rifles, so it's a natural consequence that it should involve the people that operate them too as the trained sniper is central to the platform. How can one classify the Mosin-Nagant as one of the greatest snipers, based on kills, if kills are entirely a feat of the people operating them?
I'm sure Mosins froze too; I honestly think the issue concerning the Karabiner 98 and all small arms is overstated. Besides, it was of less consequence to the Germans even if a few of their rifles froze - what was more disconcerting was when their MG42's iced up, given that German army units were 'machine-gun heavy'; relying on them to do most of the heavy lifting in any given infantry squad. However, that is outside the scope of this discussion. The Germans eventually began to learn the merits of properly lubricating their weapons and similarly used Kerosene-mixed oils (probably something borrowed from the Soviets, but these oils needed frequent re-application) and sunflower-based oils near the warmer Caucasian regions, where it was available. I couldn't give you an exact date, but I think around 1942 is an educated guess, and probably saw a serious decline of weapons being rendered inoperable.
Granted, the German Sixth army didn't have the luxury of lubricating oils after they were encircled by the Red Army, but an argument against the Karabiner 98 could hardly be made for that either. It's just circumstantial logistics; is the K98 a worse rifle because its troops have run out of ammunition? Cleaning supplies? I think not.
Last edited:
harmon rabb
Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,699
It's no doubt the most commonly owned ww2 rifle, so all the votes make sense.
BTW, to anyone reading this, if you don't own a mosin, uh, why not? Go spend $100 and get yourself a piece of history.
- Status
