The equipment snobs are going to be laughing at me.

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You don't really believe that do you? Expensive guns can last just as long and be just as reliable. And be just as accurate.
Depends on the rifle...I know my milsurps are not as accurate as your AR, but they work all the time in the worst weather, spotty or nonexistant maintenance, etc.:) If they were truely on par with anything out there, PD snipers would be equipped with Mosin 91/30s...kind of an interesting idea...:what:
Well, OK, I would rather have a DSA FAL, but I have not the cash...so I practice with what I have, and get as good as I can with it, for now. :eek:
 
Would you care to explain how someone buying a Schmidt & Bender scope made in Germany and selling for about $2500 impacts the price you pay for a $250 scope? If anything, the sale of cheap scopes made in some third-world country have the effect of driving down scope prices. That's something that would be learned in a basic Econ101 course. I'm afraid what we've got here is a bit of that little green monster -- Envy. While I personally cannot afford a $2500 scope, I certainly don't begrudge someone who can. More power to them.

Look at what prices AR-15s and 1911s are going for, WAY TOO MUCH. Manufacters have lost touch with the fact not everyone is a benchrest shooter and is unwilling and/or unable to spend four figures for a gun.

-Bill
 
Well, if it will make you feel better, to me, you are the equipment snob! What with your fancy made-in-this-millennium rifle, with your high falutin' optical sight, and your space-age synthetic stock! :neener:

Okay, I am only kidding, but the last rifle I bought cost me $140 OTD (old Mosin Nagant). Enjoy your Savage. All the ones I've shot have been good shooters.

As far as equipment snobs go, to me you are not an equipment snob just because you have expensive guns. Neither are you an equipment snob if you have expensive guns but are out-shot by someone with lower cost equipment. It's when you won't even acknowledge someone just because your gun case cost more than their entire gun. . .

And as far as people buying the really expensive stuff, well, somebody has to keep these custom rifle builders employed and fed so they'll still be around when I save up the cash to get one for myself! ;) (Oh, and believe me, I will shoot the living blazes out of it :D ).
 
If it shoots well, don't worry about it. I was about to buy a Barska spotting scope, the tech specs on it looked good. I knew by the price that it was made off-shore, and would have bought it if it was made anywhere but China. Checked the company's corporate page, China, no deal. At least I know where Leupolds are made. That said, I am sure the scope and rifle will perform great. It is refreshing to me that someone with a little time and not much cash can go to a pit like wal-mart and come away with a competent rifle capable of hitting at pretty long range. Only in America.
 
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Would you care to explain how someone buying a Schmidt & Bender scope made in Germany and selling for about $2500 impacts the price you pay for a $250 scope? If anything, the sale of cheap scopes made in some third-world country have the effect of driving down scope prices. That's something that would be learned in a basic Econ101 course. I'm afraid what we've got here is a bit of that little green monster -- Envy. While I personally cannot afford a $2500 scope, I certainly don't begrudge someone who can. More power to them.



Look at what prices AR-15s and 1911s are going for, WAY TOO MUCH. Manufacters have lost touch with the fact not everyone is a benchrest shooter and is unwilling and/or unable to spend four figures for a gun.

-Bill

Bill,

Check the yellow pages to find a local community college where you can enroll in a basic Economics course. I'm sorry, but this is America and we have a free market system. Manufacturer's do not, nor should they, have to justify to the poor what their product sells for. If they try to sell their products at too high of a price and nobody buys them, they will soon go out of business. Rather than complain about items being priced out of your budget, why don't you get an education and/or training that will allow you to increase your earning potential? Sorry to be so blunt, but I get sick of some of the class warfare that seems to go on on this site. Reminds me of the Russians complaining that their neighbor has more cows than them. Stalin had the solution to that problem -- take away everybody's cows.;)

Don
 
As the old saying goes; It ain't the weapon, it's the person it's attached to...

The rifle pictured at the beginning of the thread is a nice rifle, I'd be glad to own it! It doesn't matter how much you spend or don't spend if you can't shoot it well. Get out and practice every chance you get and if some one sneers at your rig; you can have have confidence in your ability and the rifle won't matter.

When you look at what the Soviet sniper was equipped with during the German invasion and look at their record, you know it wasn't the rifle it was the shooter's ability to shoot the rifle.
 
Forget the Soviet sniper.

The U.S. Army sniper of WWII wasn't exactly running a 8-40x56mm Nightforce w/Lilja barrel, himself. Far from it, it was a 2.5x scope and a 2-groove barrel.

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But he did alright, and I can keep 5 rounds inside 1" at 100 yards with his same issued rifle, over 50 years later. Take that Savage and practice. You'll do fine.
 
"Manufacturer's do not, nor should they, have to justify to the poor what their product sells for."

That reminded me of Arnold Jewell's response when he was asked why his triggers cost so much. "They cost what they cost."

For a number of years I had a few guns that were each worth more than my car.

John
 
For a number of years I had a few guns that were each worth more than my car.

John,

Why, why, that's just plain snobbery.:D Speaking of Arnold Jewell, I've got a couple of his $200 triggers on my rifles and don't plan on repenting.

Don
 
I remember when I was in college, I scrimped and saved till I was able to buy a Remington PSS (when they first came out). Well, I couldn't afford a "real" scope so I put on a cheapie Walmart Tasco scope.

People used to check out the rifle at the range and comment on how it was a shame that I put such a crappy scope on a beautiful rifle. Then they wanted to show me their thousand dollar Leupolds or Swartzskis. Funny how they shut up real quick when I showed them the nice 5 shot cloverleaf groups I was consistantly getting with my rifle and cheap scope.

I kept that scope on for the next 9 years until I finally upgraded to a Zeiss. But that scope sits on my Enfield "sniper" and has never failed me once in litterally thousands of rounds. Best $40 bucks I ever spent.
 
Hell... you have nothing there to be embarrassed about... Nice rifle, and I haven't heard anything really bad about Barka scopes... yet... I have the Plinker 22 model on my Rem 597, and it's a great scope... haven't had to reajdust it yet... after about 1000 rounds od general plinking...
That's good to hear, I'm thinking about getting one for my Romanian '69 trainer rifle. :)
 
I went to the range today. Lucky for me, there was only one guy there, and he left about 10 minutes after I got there. I wish I could say that I was shooting half inch groups, but the truth is I was getting between 2 and 3 inch groups at 100 yards. I was using the cheapest Remington ammo Bass Pro Shop had, and I was shooting off the bi-pod in the picture above. I can now see why people complain about the stock on the savage rifles. Aiming the gun with the bi-pod on the bench would cause the front of the stock that's attached to the bi-pod to flex all over the place. I remember reading someone complaining about how a bi-pod caused their Savage to go from small groups to big groups. I guess I'll have to buy all that bench rest junk that I see everyone else at the range using.

The Barska scope held up just fine with the 60 shots I fired today. My shoulder was starting to complain at about 40 rounds.

Here are some possible reasons as to why I wasn't shooting .5 MOA.

1. ME. I'm still pretty new to all this shooting stuff. This is the first bolt action rifle that I've fired more than one round with, so I'm probably the limiting factor on this gun.

2. Bi-pod / stock Savage stock. Once I get some benchrest stuff, I should be able to rule out the bi-pod and weak stock.

3. Barska Scope. If I still can't get good groups after putting the gun on a bench rest, then I'll get someone else to shoot it that might have more experience than me. If they can't shoot it, then I'm going to buy a new scope.

I was at the range two weeks ago, and this guy was there shooting his custom target gun. I told him that I wanted to get a bolt action 308 rifle. He looked at me and said, "What are you going to do with that?" My response was that I just wanted to shoot at long range targets.

Today, as I was breaking in my new rifle, the guy that left 10 minutes after I got there asked me, "What caliber is that?" I said it was a 308. Then he said, "What are you going to do with that?" My response was that I was just going to shoot paper.

I got the feeling that both of these guys were worried about me owning a high power long range rifle. I don't really understand why they would act like that. I'm your standard 35 year old guy. I took a bath, shaved, and combed my hair before going to the range today. My ghillie suit was fresh from the cleaners too.
 
GRIFFIN1:
I went to the range today. Lucky for me, there was only one guy there, and he left about 10 minutes after I got there. I wish I could say that I was shooting half inch groups, but the truth is I was getting between 2 and 3 inch groups at 100 yards. I was using the cheapest Remington ammo Bass Pro Shop had, and I was shooting off the bi-pod in the picture above. I can now see why people complain about the stock on the savage rifles. Aiming the gun with the bi-pod on the bench would cause the front of the stock that's attached to the bi-pod to flex all over the place. I remember reading someone complaining about how a bi-pod caused their Savage to go from small groups to big groups. I guess I'll have to buy all that bench rest junk that I see everyone else at the range using.

It's been said a lot of times, and it's true, that you really need to try out several brands of ammo and see what your rifle shoots best with. Also, handloading really can give you the best accuracy if you tinker with your formula- bullet weight, seating depth, powder charge weight- and see what weight and speed work best in your rifle. I don't doubt what you're saying about the stock and bi-pod too, but it bears some looking into and not just writing off.

1. ME. I'm still pretty new to all this shooting stuff. This is the first bolt action rifle that I've fired more than one round with, so I'm probably the limiting factor on this gun.

True, and most good rifles shoot better than we ever will, but that's the human factor. If you're breathing, it's gonna create "wobble factor" and increase the group size and size of the "cone of probability".

2. Bi-pod / stock Savage stock. Once I get some benchrest stuff, I should be able to rule out the bi-pod and weak stock.

As I said, it bears looking into. The bi-pod may not be the problem nearly so much as the fore-end of the stock being too flexible. A different stock may well be in order.

3. Barska Scope. If I still can't get good groups after putting the gun on a bench rest, then I'll get someone else to shoot it that might have more experience than me. If they can't shoot it, then I'm going to buy a new scope.

I can't really comment much on optics, but I can see you have to be able to see your crosshairs or sights to be able to hit your target. But you also have to be able to see your target.

I was at the range two weeks ago, and this guy was there shooting his custom target gun. I told him that I wanted to get a bolt action 308 rifle. He looked at me and said, "What are you going to do with that?" My response was that I just wanted to shoot at long range targets.

This sounds hypocritical on that guy's part.

Today, as I was breaking in my new rifle, the guy that left 10 minutes after I got there asked me, "What caliber is that?" I said it was a 308. Then he said, "What are you going to do with that?" My response was that I was just going to shoot paper.

I got the feeling that both of these guys were worried about me owning a high power long range rifle. I don't really understand why they would act like that. I'm your standard 35 year old guy. I took a bath, shaved, and combed my hair before going to the range today. My ghillie suit was fresh from the cleaners too.

I don't know what peoples' problem is about a guy with a new .308 boltgun. Of course, the fact that you "took a bath, shaved, and combed my hair before going to the range today. My ghillie suit was fresh from the cleaners too" might have thrown them a serious curve as everybody knows .308 boltgunners are filthy stinkin' pigs bent on killing any living thing they can see clear out to the face of the moon through their scopes. [/sarcasm] Hey, I dress like a cowboy 24/7 even at the range and I get some strange looks on my choices of weapons too. Don't worry about them.
 
People look at me funny sometimes because I'm a lanky Chinese kid (college student, 6'3", 145lb :p) who always brings in "that freaking cannon" (M48 or M48A, depending on the day).

*shrug*

F*** 'em, it's a free country.
 
My Barska 3x12x40 AO Airgun scope is pretty nice, especially when you consider I paid a whopping 35 bucks for it, on sale. I'm curious to see how yours holds up under a lot of recoil.
 
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