The Use of Plated Handgun Bullets

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Safetychain

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I've been reloading for the last 15 or so years, nowadays, for the economics in handgun calibers (.380, 9mm, .40, 45 ACP). Early on I cast my own and was satisfied except for the leading that sometimes occurred. I see now that I was going about it wrong trying to reduce loads to stop this which was likely making it worse).

I then changed to plated bullets. I have been very satisfied with these (Berry's and Ranier). I was loading as jacketed and lead load levels. I have not noticed any problems with jacket separations as some claim. Then the word came in about the octaganol barrels having problems with them. Again, I haven't noticed this in my Baby Eagle 40.

And today I read Longdayjakes reply to a previous thread about his plated bullets to be treated as a jacketed bullet. Does this mean that he sees no problem with them in an octaganol barrel?

This thread is to solicit some comments concerning the problems, if there is actually any, with plated bullets and does Longdayjakes bullets use harder lead core and/or thicker plating?
 
I have never had any problems with plated bullets (Ranier, Berrys, X-Treme) shot at any reasonable velocity. That would include the calibers you listed.

I did have one revolver that had problems with them, but no others. I believe it was a throat to bore problem with it.

I recently purchased some Powderbond bullets to see if they were as good as advertised. I really like them. They are a bit harder than other plated bullets. I have shot them at up to 1350 FPS in a Colt Trooper Mk III with no problems and very good accuracy. I am certain they can take more than I have subjected them to so far.

They will not replace the Berrys or X-Treme plated bullets I use now, but will definitely fill a roll in my plated bullet needs.
 
I've not had any problems with Berry's or Rainiers in my Glock 17. I have been well pleased with them in all of my guns and like to use them but am increasingly going back to jacketed and cast bullets due to the rising costs of plated bullets. The only plated bullets I have experienced problems with were some that I don't recall the name of from California. The problem I had with them was no accuracy and keyholing using loads that worked well with other plated and cast bullets. I have tried various types of coated bullets like Precision Coated and MasterBlaster (MB is now out of business) but have had fouling problems with them I no longer ues them. I am willing to try new things and will soom order 500 BayouBullets. I intend to try them in 45ACP with Unique, Blue Dot or other slow burning powders.
 
The only problem I had with plated bullets (this was out of a rifle firing 45 Colt) was firing them too -slowly-. They apparently were not expanding enough at the base and not engaging the rifling properly. Not only were they not "on the paper" at 850fps at 60 yards, they were -barely- on the backboard!

At the suggestion of the vendor (RMRBullets.com), I switched powders (green dot to 2400) so I could get the velocities up. At 1600+ FPS I'm not only "on the paper", but consistently "in the black" at 60 yards.
 
Safetychain, I think you must be referring to "polygonal" barrels rather than octagonal barrels. The only difference between polygonal rifling and cut land and groove rifling is that you must be absolutely certain to watch for and remove any lead fouling and not let it build up. If not kept very clean a polygonal bore can raise pressures to a point where there can be a dangerous situation with some types of handguns and calibers which are already running at fairly high pressures. .40 S&W and Glocks being two examples. Excessive pressure combined with less case support in the chamber has led to guns letting go. Just keep it clean.
 
I like the crimp groove.
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The crimp "groove" is really just some marks around the circumference. There is no indention to roll a case mouth into. No worse than the poor cannelure on some jacketed bullets I have seen. I have not tried a roll crimp on them yet. It may work just fine. It will push the case mouth into the bullet. The trick is if it breaks the plating. They should hold up to a light or even medium roll crimp. I'll be trying it soon, but I have no reason to roll crimp them. A taper crimp works just fine.
 
Since this thread seems to be about the bullets I sell, I figure I should chime in a little.

Okay, the plating is thicker than berry's and rainier. The copper plating is also more maleable meaning it can flex a little more without cracking or separating. They can be crimped as much as any jacketed bullet, or atleast all of my testing (as well as many of my customers) has proven this to be the case. There is no velocity limit that I or my customers have been able to reach. Magnum velocities actually seem to make the bullets shoot more accurately. I have a customer shooting the 45 230 grain bullets at 1700 fps from a lever action. (Must be mgkdrgn) I wish I could get a lever action in .357 and try them out in there, but I have no doubts that the bullets would withstand 2000 fps or more. The bullets are made by the same company that makes the Power Belt muzzle loading bullets. The only difference is that the bullets I sell have a thicker plating. Power Belt bullets have been known to go past 2000 with no problems, so i see no reason the thicker plating shouldn't do the same or better from the PowerBond.

Now, concerning glock barrels and the like...

These bullets can be used just fine in polygonal barrels. However, mag dump tests show that after several mags of rapid fire the barrel heats up enough to melt the lead inside the bullet. This resulted in heavy fouling which as mentioned before can create scary pressure issues. I was told that the reason this happens is because plated bullets conform to the barrel tighter than a jacketed bullet. This creates more friction. This extra friction causes extra heat.

So, when loading these bullets they should be loaded as though they were jacketed bullets as my testing has shown them to perform best at hot jacketed, +p, and magnum velocities. Testing has shown that they are safe to shoot from glocks, but I wouldn't use them for a competition scenario where I would be doing several rapid fire mag dumps. That said, the fouling issues were only recorded from a glock barrel, but I imagine it would be the same from any polygonal barrel.

I have customers who have switched to these bullets for competitions because of the accuracy that they get from them, but many of them are shooting 1911s. I shoot them from my glock 19 but I don't do time trial competitions and mag dump after mag dump. I hope this clears it up for you.
 
Ok, stupid question, but how does reducing loads for cast bullets make leading worse?

I have been shooting both 125gr. hard cast lead bullets and 148 gr. .357 dia Rainier DEWC bullets in .38 Special. My load for the 125 gr. lead is 3.0 gr. Trail Boss, and with the DEWCs I use 2.5 gr. I like the way the lead bullets shoot better, but they leave a lot of fouling on the gun.
 
I have shot ranier HPs out of my g21. THe bullet itself is a crappy design, iMO. Its not a reliable expander, or at least at the time I used them they werent. Shot over a chronograph i was able to push them past 1000fps in a g21 with no fouling at all. They were reasonable accurate too, but not nearly as accurate as the properly sized lead loads that I shot through my stock barrel. The key to shooting any bullet that isnt FMJ through a glock is the proper lead hardness and bore sizing.
 
Ok, stupid question, but how does reducing loads for cast bullets make leading worse?
Click to expand...

If there is not enough pressure to make the bullet squeeze out against the walls of the throat and bore, sealing them, then it will cause leading from flame cutting as hot gases get by between the bullet and the throats/bore. A softer alloy will help with light loads. Actually, it is a must.

The bullets need to be sized to the throats.

But this thread is about plated bullets.
 
longdayjake,

I'm looking for a 9mm caliber bullet for use in my 9x25 Dillon, which puts a 115 grain bullet out at 1,533 fps from my 4.5" barrel, with no pressure signs. I'm reaching for 1,600 fps with this caliber. I'm curious if your 115 grain jacketed hollowpoint bullet could stand up to that, or have you been able to test them at that velocity?

If you think they'll stand up to it, I'd like to order some and give them a try. I also have several .357 Magnum Marlins, so I could also try your .38 bullets and let you know how they do at 2,000+ fps.

Thank you in advance,
Fred
 
John Wayne: I just recently found through a THR thread the Missouri Bullet Technical Page on this subject as well as http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCBAlloyObturation.htm. Probably will eventually get back to casting my own when I slow down my after retirement travel.

Drail: You are correct. I meant Polygonal barrel. A senior moment I guess. I think I have only shot a magazine out quickly (1 round per second or so) maybe three times in my life and that was recently trying out my friend's new Accu-Tek AT-380. My main shoot for enjoyment guns are standard barrelled .45 ACP and 9mm, so I should be OK. And because I still have a 1000 rnds or lead loaded up on the low side to shoot up, I have typically just shoot a mag of plated or jacketed bullets through when I finish with the lead and no more barrel leading. I usually only shoot a box or two of 50 at a time and there isn't too much leading anyway.

And thanks Longdayjake, I was hoping you would respond. Then I should be very safe because I do not do competitions, only practice and plinking with my reloads. My next buy will likely come from you.

Thanks again for the prompt and informative replys.
Duncan
 
Fred,

I have no doubts that they will shoot just fine at those velocities. I would be very interested in seeing how well the .357 shoots at 2000fps. I am almost certain it will do just fine, but it would be good to know anyway.
 
longdayjake.........I may just hafta try some of your bullets thru my .357 carbine and let you know.
 
longdayjake.........I may just hafta try some of your bullets thru my .357 carbine and let you know.
Click to expand...

Thats what I like to hear!!! Be sure to buy plenty, I've got my eye on a .357 lever action of my own :evil:.
 
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