The whole 1911 reliability thing.

[dsk]

The 1911 as originally designed is reliable. But if you throw in parts that are of lesser quality you're going to have problems. All these issues with bad magazines, extractors, fitting, etc are NOT the 1911's fault. If SIG shipped their pistols with cheap magazines they wouldn't have a reputation for flawless reliability either.

It's time for 1911 manufacturers to stop looking at their products as high-priced tinkertoys, and to give customers what they need out of the box. Quality components (no MIM small parts or flimsy mags) and professional fitting and assembly. The only problem is, to remain profitable they would have to charge $1000 just for a basic pistol. But as long as they have to compete with $650 "MIM wonders" being sold to folks who don't know any better it's gonna be hard to do.

 

[444]

I can't resist throwing some crap into the game. I was out shooting today. Took two revolvers and my Glock 17. This little town I live in got it's first Wal Mart two days ago, so I stopped by today and picked up some factory ammo just for the heck of it. I almost never shoot factory ammo, but I had been shooting these same guns for about a week now and was just curious to see how they grouped with factory ammo or put another way, were my handloads better or worse than factory ammo.

The point to the story is that I had a jam with my Glock 17. The whole perfection thing was looking quite silly. Want to know something better ? I had a Glock 21 fail within the first couple hundred rounds; had to be sent back to the factory.
The problem isn't the guns, it is the gross generalizations people make about them. They have a problem, or worse yet, hear about someone else having a problem and to them, that means they object in question is junk. Very shallow thought process.

 

[Boats]

Step one in my book for getting a reliable factory 1911 is to avoid Kimber. Old Kimbers were great Series I or the ones made in Oregon. Since the move to Neuh Yawk and the Series II, I won't waste my money on them. The other pretty hard and fast rule is no sub 4" inch 1911. The Officer's and Micros are notoriously unreliable. Chasing the extreme CCW size reduction fad with a 1911 is folly. Lower slide mass means quicker slide travel, Rube Goldberg recoil systems, and more pernicious timing problems with standard strength mag springs in my book.

The Springfield Champion I feature in my sig line is my first 1911 clone in ten years. There is nothing wrong with it at all. I did replace the extractor soon after purchase with a C&S spring steel unit because that is the cheapest (~$30.00) reliability insurance you can get for a 1911. I also bought the Springfield because they have a reputation for making right when things go wrong. A friend of mine had his plain black front sight bent at the factory by a couple of millimeters to the left. They shipped it back at their expense and installed night sights for him at no charge after calling him and asking if he would mind the gesture. They are cool people in Geneso.

 

[Rich357]

I have a few 1911s. They have been reliable for the most part. I enjoy shooting them. I have another on order. But they wouldn't be my first choice if I had to save my life. I would grab one of my Glocks or SIGs.

Rich

 

[355sigfan]

The 1911 are the easiest pistol to shoot well under stress bar none. That’s why the world’s elite forces from the Military to LEO’s use it. It has a low bore line and a shot trigger re set that cannot be copied in any other design. If you look at the people who train the trainers like Clint Smith and others you will see the 1911 as the predominate weapon followed distantly by Glock and then a smattering of DA SA guns. 1911 can be wonderfully reliable guns you just can’t buy junk.

After I became a firearms instructor I realized the full potential of the 1911 design. I started like as a Sig fan. I still like them very reliable and accurate guns. I then became a Glock fan and they are my second choice to this day. But now the 1911 in the form of my Kimber Series one Custom Classic is what I trust my life too. I agree that chopping 1911 greatly reduces their reliability. If need a small gun I grab my Sig 239 or my former Glock 33. (About to replace the 33 I sold with a 26)

PAT

 

[Dobe]

Kimber 4"

I have three Kimbers (series I). One of those Kimbers is a 4" Kimber Compact. It is surprisingly accurate for a short gun, and has yet to jam on me to this day. Now it is somewhat new, I have lesst than 1K through it, but it cycles fine. It is all steel too, which I like.

 

[mec]

was out plinking and reliability checking the massively re-built Milspec today. Functioning is perfect so far although there are less than 200 round through it since the reliability, accuracy, work was done.
Tried my hand at 25 yard bullseye shooting with the CorBon 185JHP The load does 1162 from this gun.

 

[aircarver]

It's scary how many people supply bad parts for the 1911. I built a Frankengun on an Essex frame, and Essex's supplied ejector was so soft, the brass cartridges were mushroom peening it. Same for the firing pin and extractor in an indeterminate source Colt upper. seems a lot of people like to machine soft metal & don't bother to heat treat it.
The solution in all cases, was to take a deep breath, Pay Brownell's prices, and get stuff that will work

 

[1911Tuner]

Parts is Parts...

NOT!

Amen aircarver! Essex has gotten much better lately...Ask me
how I know. They still use that silly roll pin though.

I've got a little trick that I do on extractors, and since I've
adopted the modification, I haven't had one to fail, nor
have any required much in the way of retensioning. It
works on machined steel...such as the Wilson Bulletproof
and Brown hardcore...and MIM extractors. Investment
castings are dead meat as far as I am concerned, and
I toss them as soon as I find them

In five years, in 7 different pistols, and with over 250,000
rounds logged, I have had not one broken extractor or an
extraction-related malfunction that was the fault of the extractor.
Ammunition has ranged from premium to my home-rolled loads
with home-cast bullets....all in the 200-230 grain class.

Good of you to point out a truth here.

Cheers, and top'o'the day to ya sir.
Tuner

 

[ambidextrous1]

Hey, Tuner, what's your extractor trick?

Come on, don't be a tease!

 

[1911Tuner]

Extractor Trick

Howdy ambi,

Not much of a trick, really.

The nominal diameter at the center is .205 inch...plus or minus.
All I do is reduce whatever that diameter is by filing a flat
straight across the outer lug... Reduce it
about .015 inch.Then I file another flat on both
side of the top one at about 30 degrees, but the angle isn't critical. All those do is relieve the sides to keep them out of a bind.

Then, I cut a forward rake on the pad at about 15 degrees, but
not all the way to the adjusted diameter of the "dog Knots".
Leave it at .190. After the rake is done, you can leave it as is or
blend it into a tapered radius for a better finished look.

This enables the extractor to cam open easier, but still maintain
tension when a round is under it, but the most important thing
that it does is it makes the extractor behave more like a spring, and less like a rigid piece of steel, and shifts the tension from
the front end along a longer axis. This goes a long way toward
maintaining tension over the long haul, and keeps the stress off
the thin part of the hook.

Simple...quick...easy, and works like a charm. After you've done
two or three, you can do the cuts in about 10 minutes.

Wish I had a way to post some photos.

If this isn't clear enough, I'll try to explain more carefully,
or, if you'll send one with return postage, I'll do the mods and
send it back next day.

Take care,
T

 

[Jeff Timm]

I still swear by Stainless Steel Laka's from the 1970's (I have 2) Nickle Colt factories and some 8 round mags I got in the 1980's and have long forgotten the brand name of.

As I Small Arms Repairman and Inspector, US Army 1972-1982, I saw M1911A1s that worked, when by all that was regulation, they damn sure shouldn't have!

At the time they were almost all WWII manufacture, with a few updated and original 1911s in for spice.

Number one problem was length of the recoil spring and troops exceeding their level of maintenance, using the trigger spring leaves for a tool and twisting them. Losing the plunger spring and detents was a major failure as well.

Geoff
Who never yielded to the temptation to perform field modification on sticky fingered troopers with a ball peen hammer...but it was sometimes a near thing!

 

[1911Tuner]

Jeff Timm said:

As I Small Arms Repairman and Inspector, US Army 1972-1982, I saw M1911A1s that worked, when by all that was regulation, they.

Tell me about it! You could almost field-strip some of'em
with a good shakin'.

Could it be that those vintage 80's 8-rounders mighta been
"Devel" mags?

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[ambidextrous1]

Hello, Tuner,

Your description sent me running to my spare parts box for an extractor, and then your comments became very clear. I have heard that the original JMB detail specification for the extractor called for a specific alloy steel with spring temper. I've heard also that no one makes extractors thataway now. The mod you describe should permit proper functioning with a "current" part.

I imagine it's best to start with the best extractor I can find, and not some part of unknown origin.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Jeff Timm]

1911Tuner said: Could it be that those vintage 80's 8-rounders mighta been "Devel" mags?

These have a black plastic follower with an embedded detent and a magazine pad held on with two Allen Key screws.

Geoff
Who is thinking of a new compact 9mm, but that Sig .45 Compact looks mighty good.

 

[farscott]

I think one of the biggest issues with 1911 reliability is the owner. There is just so much temptation to tweak the pistol to meet personal requirements or desires. It is not uncommon for someone to buy a new 1911 and throw all of the small parts and a few not-so-small parts away in a quest for better performance. I do not know too many people buying SIG Sauer's and then throwing half the factory parts in the trash; however, I have done exactly that with a 1911 or two.

As much as it pains me to admit, I am not a qualified 1911 pistolsmith. I can handle simple tasks, but experience has shown me that some things are better left to someone with more knowledge and experience. If that is true of me, it should be true of others. I have made mistakes that required a gunsmith to rectify, so I imagine there are other pistols that have been sold with some interesting problems.

I have also learned that buying a used 1911 without being able to perform a detail strip before purchase is a bad idea. One needs to be able to see what has been done to a pistol before committing money to it unless the dealer has a very good return policy. I can see how someone buying a used 1911 can get a very bad opinion about 1911 reliability after some of the things I have seen.

As an example, I found a stainless Colt NRM 1991 for a very good price. The exterior condition had some wear, but nothing that would justify the low price. The barrel looked good, the barrel to slide fit was good, and the gun did nor rattle. The dealer explained that this pistol would not shoot, so he was selling it for parts. I took a chance and bought it since it was less than buying a new frame and slide. When it was detail-stripped at my gunsmith's, some of the issues became obvious. The sear spring looked like someone had gone crazy with a bench grinder. The condition of the rest of the fire-control parts was just as suspect. With work like that, it is no wonder that the 1911's reputation can be mixed.

 

[1911Tuner]

Odd magazine

JT said:

These have a black plastic follower with an embedded detent and a magazine pad held on with two Allen Key screws.

I remember those! bad part is...I can't remember who made'em
either, but there's a guy who shoots where I do that has two.
I'll ask him and shoot a PM your way when I find out.
I may be wrong, but I THINK they're early Wilsons...We shall see.

Later on,
Tuner