They've finally done it... IPSC is outlawed
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Jay Kominek
Member
mmm, cowgirls.I don't know about Germany, but COWBOYS don't wear dresses... COWGIRLS do.
Targets in Massachusetts
An earlier post states:
Even here in the US, it is illegal for "civilians" to shoot at any target resembling a human in the state of Massachusetts (this includes silhouettes).
The above is a popular misconception based in a partial reading of a law.
The real story is covered in an article I posted to www.boudrie.com two years ago:
Humanoid Targets in Massachusetts
A Clarification
Rob Boudrie, May 10 2002
I have recently received questions about news reports that the United States Court of Appeals for the first circuit recently upheld the Massachusetts General Law which prohibits shooting at human targets, and how it will affect USPSA/IPSC matches in this state.
These comments are offered with the usual disclaimer that I am not a lawyer, and this does not constitute any manner commentary is not "legal advice."
The short answer is It will have not mandate any changes in our match procedures.
Here's why it doesn't effect our matches
Chapter 180 of 1998 included a provision which mandates that a club which holds a "Class A License to Carry Firearms" must prohibit the firing at "targets that depict human figures, human effigies, human silhouettes or any human images thereof, except by public safety personnel performing in line with their official duties."
The relevant facts:
Nothing in Masschusetts Law requires a club to apply for or obtain a License to Carry Firearms. (Any Massachusetts resident who wishes to purchase or posess a handgun must, however, obtain such a license - but that is not a "club" license).
No USPSA Affiliated clubs in Massachusetts hold a Massachusetts Club License to Carry Firearms. Since the provision of Chapter 180 pertaining to humanoid targets applies only to Clubs holding such a license, the prohibition does not impact any member clubs.
I am not aware of any Massachusetts club not affiliated with USPSA which has obtained a club license to carry firearms.
What if it did?
Even if Massachusetts residents were prohibited from using our primary target, I would not support a "least common demonimator" approach for the United States Region.
Interesting Article
The Findlaw website has an interesting article on this decision.
Rob Boudrie
An earlier post states:
Even here in the US, it is illegal for "civilians" to shoot at any target resembling a human in the state of Massachusetts (this includes silhouettes).
The above is a popular misconception based in a partial reading of a law.
The real story is covered in an article I posted to www.boudrie.com two years ago:
Humanoid Targets in Massachusetts
A Clarification
Rob Boudrie, May 10 2002
I have recently received questions about news reports that the United States Court of Appeals for the first circuit recently upheld the Massachusetts General Law which prohibits shooting at human targets, and how it will affect USPSA/IPSC matches in this state.
These comments are offered with the usual disclaimer that I am not a lawyer, and this does not constitute any manner commentary is not "legal advice."
The short answer is It will have not mandate any changes in our match procedures.
Here's why it doesn't effect our matches
Chapter 180 of 1998 included a provision which mandates that a club which holds a "Class A License to Carry Firearms" must prohibit the firing at "targets that depict human figures, human effigies, human silhouettes or any human images thereof, except by public safety personnel performing in line with their official duties."
The relevant facts:
Nothing in Masschusetts Law requires a club to apply for or obtain a License to Carry Firearms. (Any Massachusetts resident who wishes to purchase or posess a handgun must, however, obtain such a license - but that is not a "club" license).
No USPSA Affiliated clubs in Massachusetts hold a Massachusetts Club License to Carry Firearms. Since the provision of Chapter 180 pertaining to humanoid targets applies only to Clubs holding such a license, the prohibition does not impact any member clubs.
I am not aware of any Massachusetts club not affiliated with USPSA which has obtained a club license to carry firearms.
What if it did?
Even if Massachusetts residents were prohibited from using our primary target, I would not support a "least common demonimator" approach for the United States Region.
Interesting Article
The Findlaw website has an interesting article on this decision.
Rob Boudrie
RevDisk
Member
Best of luck, you're probably going to need it.
Re the crackdown on weapons in Germany, like the RAF actually needed to buy their toys from gunstores that kept records? As opposed to buying cheaper non-crippled toys from Lebanon and other third world countries.
Keep up the good fight! Remind your politicians not to forget the past.
Re the crackdown on weapons in Germany, like the RAF actually needed to buy their toys from gunstores that kept records? As opposed to buying cheaper non-crippled toys from Lebanon and other third world countries.
Keep up the good fight! Remind your politicians not to forget the past.
trooper
Member
No, they can't really outlaw biathlon because its extremely popular over here among TV audiences. Successful biathletes have a huge fan community, and the armed forces, border police and customs service have their own biathlon teams.
In the first draft of the new Firearms Act they included a section that outlawed all shooting sports in which the competitors travel along a course... until some smartass in the Ministry of the Interior said, "Um... I think we're just about to kill biathlon... can't do that."
So they just outlawed shooting on the move instead (which is why dynamic shooting events are... a little less dynamic in Germany )
Bah... semantics
Regards,
Trooper
In the first draft of the new Firearms Act they included a section that outlawed all shooting sports in which the competitors travel along a course... until some smartass in the Ministry of the Interior said, "Um... I think we're just about to kill biathlon... can't do that."
So they just outlawed shooting on the move instead (which is why dynamic shooting events are... a little less dynamic in Germany
)Bah... semantics
Regards,
Trooper
LoneStranger
Member
Which only applies until you try to kiss one!!
Always been told that the devil is in the details.
twoblink
Member
Stand_Watie
Member
I may be wrong about this twoblink (I'm sure trooper will correct me if I am), but I think it might be illegal to display that poster in Germany.
Luckily, twoblink lives in a somewhat free country (I think) and the German and French authorities have no way of prosecuting him over it. And they have tried in the past over similar things.
Loch.
PS: and to think that people in a different forum were trying to convince me to go to IPSC matches in Germany to prove to me how superior they are to the US matches. Heh.
Loch.
PS: and to think that people in a different forum were trying to convince me to go to IPSC matches in Germany to prove to me how superior they are to the US matches. Heh.
Stand_Watie
Member
No, I wasn't concerned that twoblink was in danger of prosecution, I was just pointing out the irony of how lack of a first amendment can be used to squelch opposition to a loss of another "right" (priviledge, I guess in Germany). I didn't think Trooper would be printing that poster up and passing it out.
trooper
Member
Oh, it's not that bad... swastikas are only outlawed under certain circumstances. Nobody can charge you for presenting a historical photo.
You may not, however, sew a nazi patch on your jacket, raise your arm and march down Main Street over here...
Oh BTW, did you use Babelfish for that translation? The closest thing would be "Ich unterstütze die Entwaffnung" which means "I support disarmament", We don't really have a word for gun control in German.
Regards,
Trooper
You may not, however, sew a nazi patch on your jacket, raise your arm and march down Main Street over here...
Oh BTW, did you use Babelfish for that translation?
The closest thing would be "Ich unterstütze die Entwaffnung" which means "I support disarmament", We don't really have a word for gun control in German.Regards,
Trooper
twoblink
Member
I'm soooooo waiting for a German to come arrest me!! 
I remember reading that the traffic cams that were giving people tickets, people got upset and started raising their arms every time they saw a camera, and that is now deemed illegal.
"It's illegal to RAISE YOUR ARM..."
I don't know how to translate that in German, but the statement is so rediculous!! And Germans make fun of the China human rights???
And btw..
Since this is THR (a server in America) and this is the internet... Basically... telling me something is illegal (maybe) in Germany is
ONLY GOING TO ENCOURAGE ME TO POST MORE HITLER POSTERS.
If I were the German people, I'd have a swastika in the Parliment building to remind people what can happen when government gets out of control... oops, too late...
"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns..."
Wasn't it called "Get in the showers!!" ???
My friend Jewish friend said his dad told him that, and for him to never forget..never again... How quickly we forget history..
As you can see, this touches off a spark as far as I'm concerned..
Europe has gone to hell in a handbasket..
They remove the death penalty but raising your arm is illegal. I'm not sure if 2nd graders with no logic are running the government, or if the government needs a few Abrams rolling in on them again to remind them tyranny should have no grasp when rights of the people are concerned...
I remember reading that the traffic cams that were giving people tickets, people got upset and started raising their arms every time they saw a camera, and that is now deemed illegal.
"It's illegal to RAISE YOUR ARM..."
I don't know how to translate that in German, but the statement is so rediculous!! And Germans make fun of the China human rights???
And btw..
Since this is THR (a server in America) and this is the internet... Basically... telling me something is illegal (maybe) in Germany is
ONLY GOING TO ENCOURAGE ME TO POST MORE HITLER POSTERS.
If I were the German people, I'd have a swastika in the Parliment building to remind people what can happen when government gets out of control... oops, too late...
"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns..."
Wasn't it called "Get in the showers!!" ???
My friend Jewish friend said his dad told him that, and for him to never forget..never again... How quickly we forget history..
As you can see, this touches off a spark as far as I'm concerned..
Europe has gone to hell in a handbasket..
They remove the death penalty but raising your arm is illegal. I'm not sure if 2nd graders with no logic are running the government, or if the government needs a few Abrams rolling in on them again to remind them tyranny should have no grasp when rights of the people are concerned...
Stand_Watie
Member
I hope I didn't give you the impression that I thought that you or anyone else who is not physically in Germany is bound by German law. I meant no such thing.
trooper
Member
Go ahead... that's fine with me...
twoblink
Member
Stand_Watie, you meant no such thing nor did I take it as so..
It's just that::
If whatever you are doing is pissing off the government, then you know you are doing what is right, and just
It's just that::
If whatever you are doing is pissing off the government, then you know you are doing what is right, and just
cadfael
Member
Hmm... How about this argument? The current IPSC world champion is Eric Grauffel, who is French. By banning IPSC in Germany then they are conceding defeat to the French.
The argument might work in America, though.
Adam
The argument might work in America, though.
Adam
Stand_Watie
Member
Lol twoblink, that's the spirit.
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