Of all of the handguns I have owned, only two have safeties that I would engage. I like the grip safety found on 1911's/XD's and I am a huge fan of the trigger-guard safety found on the Steyr M/S line of pistols. My daily carry is a Steyr S40 and I always carry with the manual safety engaged.
What Are Your Thoughts On Safety-less Guns?
- Thread starter Phriend
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The more recent generation of Steyr pistols do not have a manual safety. Striker fired pistols without a manual safety require two special precautions. Extra care needs to be taken when holstering with a loaded pistol. An obstruction will relatively easily depress the trigger and discharge pistol. If for some reason a loaded firearm is dropped let it fall and don't grab it. There have been a few incidents where when one was dropped a person snatched it which depressed the trigger which unintentionally discharged the pistol.
DougDubya
Member
For all the pistols without safety levers that I like (SIGs, Glocks, Walthers), there are also the Beretta 92 and the Smith 4506.
They don't NEED a safety, but I've never had trouble swiping that lever, even if it's in just decocked mode. However, for weapon retention purposes ONLY, the thumb lever is a bit of extra insurance (at least a few seconds' worth) - as proven by Mas Ayoob's many articles.
They don't NEED a safety, but I've never had trouble swiping that lever, even if it's in just decocked mode. However, for weapon retention purposes ONLY, the thumb lever is a bit of extra insurance (at least a few seconds' worth) - as proven by Mas Ayoob's many articles.
Autolycus
Member
I prefer guns with no safety. I like DA/SA Sigs and Glocks myself.
Arkansas Paul
Member
I have a .40 caliber Smith and Wesson Sigma that's great for cc. It's trigger pull is pretty firm, but I think that's a good thing since it has no safety. It's not going off unless I want it to.
DougDubya
Member
The manual safety is a proprietary user tool to delay unauthorized use for at least a few seconds until you can get things back under control. It's why I prefer the term "off switch."
Anything I turn off, I can turn back on. Others might not be so instantly quick.
That said, any P226 or P229 or an M&P is as fine with me as a Beretta 92 or a Smith 4506.
I just can't understand the folks who don't think a locked and cocked gun is "fast enough" or "certain enough" for their purposes.
I don't mind not having a safety at all. In fact, if I had a gun that had one, I would leave it off. (Oh! my shotgun by my desk...yeah the safety is off.)
I like my XD because it does have the back strap safety, which is nice for carry, but still, most holsters cover the trigger and you should be fine.
The only thing that concerns me are the people who run with the clipdraws on something like a glock or revolver. Trigger exposed.
Just draw how you are supposed to, finger outside the trigger guard. The milliseconds it take to put your finger on the trigger will give you enough time to think if you should be shooting or not.
I like my XD because it does have the back strap safety, which is nice for carry, but still, most holsters cover the trigger and you should be fine.
The only thing that concerns me are the people who run with the clipdraws on something like a glock or revolver. Trigger exposed.
Just draw how you are supposed to, finger outside the trigger guard. The milliseconds it take to put your finger on the trigger will give you enough time to think if you should be shooting or not.
walker944
Member
No safety doesn't bother me at all. I have a few handguns without a safety. In fact I carry one on a regular basis. It has a rather firm double action only trigger pull. That IS the safety in my mind.
I think that is bunk as well. I am not a great example of skill but I do not think I am any slower with a 1911 than with a glock, sig, etc on account of the safety. I have guns that have external safeties and guns that don't. I believe that gun handling and practice are what really matters with both.
I think there is some merit to the idea that certain types of external safeties could change the outcome of a BG getting his hands on your gun. There are confirmed cases of this occurring. However,it is not a dispositive factor in my selection of a defensive firearm
Many shotguns are not drop safe the same way a pistol is and thus leaving it chambered safety off can present a whole different set of concerns.
I would not carry my 1911 with the safety off. Nor would I certain other guns that come to mind with the safety off. Just like I wouldn't carry my sig cocked.
Shotgun isn't chambered, just needs to be racked. As far as the safety on other guns, it would depend on the gun for me. For example, a Beretta 92 I would definitely use the safety, but my XD, I have no problem carrying chambered with no safety at all. Some of that to me does have to do with exposed hammers and drop features rather than anything else.
All depends, but for the most part, guns that are designed without safety's, function just fine that way.
earlthegoat2
Member
I understand how manual safeties work and I understand how mechanical or passive safeties work and I understand how the most important safety is the meathead behind the gun and I understand how a good holster that covers the trigger will keep a gun safe even if said meathead gets a little frisky with the trigger finger on the draw.....
However I am one of those meatheads, and I tend to appreciate and like the manual safety guns as well as those without. Pistols like SAO autos need them more than say the DAO autos. DA/SA guns may or may not have them but you better believe they have some way of decocking them or in the case of the CZ they have a manual safety.
I myself fall into the category of hiding behind a manual safety so I can carry a gun in an unsafe manner. The explanation to this is nothing more than when I am taking out the trash or letting the dog out I stuff a Beretta 92 (manual safety and plethora of passive safeties) into my waistband without a holster with the safety on. I would not do this with a gun that did not have a manual safety (thank you Plaxico).
I dont really think this makes me unsafe in any way. I think it does show that I use that particular pistol within its own limitations just like when I have a revolver I always use a holster. Once again, within the revolvers limitations. The Beretta is perfectly safe without the manual safety engaged as long as it is decocked and in a holster and you practice safe gun handling. The Beretta is also perfectly safe with the safety on and put (temporarily) into my waistband.
I am not trying to advocate carrying a gun without a holster because I do not engage in this practice but for a few short minutes each day and I am not trying to rationalize anything. I am saying use the gun you have within the limitations it was designed for and live life a little simpler from now on.
However I am one of those meatheads, and I tend to appreciate and like the manual safety guns as well as those without. Pistols like SAO autos need them more than say the DAO autos. DA/SA guns may or may not have them but you better believe they have some way of decocking them or in the case of the CZ they have a manual safety.
I myself fall into the category of hiding behind a manual safety so I can carry a gun in an unsafe manner. The explanation to this is nothing more than when I am taking out the trash or letting the dog out I stuff a Beretta 92 (manual safety and plethora of passive safeties) into my waistband without a holster with the safety on. I would not do this with a gun that did not have a manual safety (thank you Plaxico).
I dont really think this makes me unsafe in any way. I think it does show that I use that particular pistol within its own limitations just like when I have a revolver I always use a holster. Once again, within the revolvers limitations. The Beretta is perfectly safe without the manual safety engaged as long as it is decocked and in a holster and you practice safe gun handling. The Beretta is also perfectly safe with the safety on and put (temporarily) into my waistband.
I am not trying to advocate carrying a gun without a holster because I do not engage in this practice but for a few short minutes each day and I am not trying to rationalize anything. I am saying use the gun you have within the limitations it was designed for and live life a little simpler from now on.
ZO6Vettever
Member
I carry a S&W Sigma with about a 7# trigger pull. It's been shortened a bit but still long and hard enough to be very safe without a safety. A light trigger with a quick break and no safety is an accident waiting to happen if you carry it, just my two cents.
Pizzagunner
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If I see one more know-nothing compare a Glock to a DA revolver I am going to 
Unless that Glock is sporting the usually reviled "NY Trigger," it is not remotely like carrying a DA revolver.
Manual safeties I can take or leave. They ain't rocket science one way or the other.
If you can train yourself keep your boogerhook off of the bangswitch, you can certainly train yourself to ride a thumb safety off during a draw.
Just because certain people perceive themselves to be so panic stricken that they'd forget to take the safety off doesn't mean the whole world is just as handicapped.
My IRL example comes from drilling shipboard with the Ma Deuce. You don't sprint to it and thumb the trigger. You charge it with ammo first. I never forgot to do it the right way every time I had to do it, for drill or for possible keeps.
You fight like you train. Haven't ever failed to swipe off a manual safety pistol doing IDPA and other stress fires. if you find yourself doing that the root cause is laziness or incompetence, it's not the weapon design.
Just like certain people can't handle their liquor and others can't drive cars with manual transmissions, or work the clutch and gear selector of a motorcycle, there are certain people who either cannot handle pistols or who should at best stick to the one type they can actually manage not to screw up with too badly.
A safety-less design probably works better for someone who can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
Unless that Glock is sporting the usually reviled "NY Trigger," it is not remotely like carrying a DA revolver.
Manual safeties I can take or leave. They ain't rocket science one way or the other.
If you can train yourself keep your boogerhook off of the bangswitch, you can certainly train yourself to ride a thumb safety off during a draw.
Just because certain people perceive themselves to be so panic stricken that they'd forget to take the safety off doesn't mean the whole world is just as handicapped.
My IRL example comes from drilling shipboard with the Ma Deuce. You don't sprint to it and thumb the trigger. You charge it with ammo first. I never forgot to do it the right way every time I had to do it, for drill or for possible keeps.
You fight like you train. Haven't ever failed to swipe off a manual safety pistol doing IDPA and other stress fires. if you find yourself doing that the root cause is laziness or incompetence, it's not the weapon design.
Just like certain people can't handle their liquor and others can't drive cars with manual transmissions, or work the clutch and gear selector of a motorcycle, there are certain people who either cannot handle pistols or who should at best stick to the one type they can actually manage not to screw up with too badly.
A safety-less design probably works better for someone who can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
I don't mind manual safeties on striker fired pistols. I know that's pretty unpopular, but I like being able to handle the gun in such a way that when I holster it it simply cannot (or at least should not barring any fluke) go off.
I know it is not likely, but a bladed trigger catching on the edge of my holster is a (rational or irrational) concern of mine. You can't really hear or see it happening. All of my revolvers are completely too stiff in the trigger to go off as such. Plus, I like having a strap lock the hammer down. I prefer a revolver over a semi most cases anyway.
When carrying my semi, I keep it either safety off and chamber empty (storage at night) or cocked and safety on (while carried). Brushing off a safety as I draw is not hard to do. I brush off safeties that don't exist on other guns that I fire.
I know it is not likely, but a bladed trigger catching on the edge of my holster is a (rational or irrational) concern of mine. You can't really hear or see it happening. All of my revolvers are completely too stiff in the trigger to go off as such. Plus, I like having a strap lock the hammer down. I prefer a revolver over a semi most cases anyway.
When carrying my semi, I keep it either safety off and chamber empty (storage at night) or cocked and safety on (while carried). Brushing off a safety as I draw is not hard to do. I brush off safeties that don't exist on other guns that I fire.
SharpsDressedMan
member
You mean, like, revolvers?...................
AirForceShooter
Member
I've carried a 1911 for 40 years.
It's always been at condition Zero.
I safe it when I take it off.
AFS
It's always been at condition Zero.
I safe it when I take it off.
AFS
zignal_zero
Member
i just felt this warranted repeating, in case anyone missed it. GOOD POINTS, bro!
also - to the poster who referred to their manual safety as an "off switch" that makes alot of sense.
sarduy
Member
This is my safety Sir!
makarovnik
Member
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- 1,678
Love 'em.
MisterMike
Member
It took me a while to wrap my head around the idea of a semi-automatic without an external manual safety, but I now own two Glocks (a G23 and a G26) and it now makes perfect sense to me. I'm not sure I'd say it's the only way to go, but it seems to me to be a concept that is well-suited for a self-defense weapon.
First, for anyone having half a brain it does (should) instill a sense of discipline in your gun handling. As has been noted on THR innumerable times, a pistol like a Glock simply won't fire unless the trigger is pulled. So, you simply ensure that you are using a good holster and that you do not place your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. Basic concepts of gun handling for as long as I can remember.
I'd echo some of the comments above about manual safeties. I've seen many instances at the range where a pistol was declared "jammed," only to find that the shooter had not disengaged the safety. If it happens often there, it's quite likely going to happen on a fairly frequent basis under the stress of an actual self-defense situation.
I've also experienced safeties on semi-automatics that are so easy to manipulate that they inadvertantly become disengaged. Combine that with the unfortunate presumptions that some make about "safed" guns, and you have yet another recipe for an accidental discharge.
The one thing I do like about manual safeties has been mentioned above--in the event of a gun grab, there's some possibility that the grabber may not know/think to disengage the safety, giving you a bit of a chance to avoid being shot with your own gun. However, on balance, I think that the advantages of the "safety-less" pistols outweigh the disadvantages.
First, for anyone having half a brain it does (should) instill a sense of discipline in your gun handling. As has been noted on THR innumerable times, a pistol like a Glock simply won't fire unless the trigger is pulled. So, you simply ensure that you are using a good holster and that you do not place your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. Basic concepts of gun handling for as long as I can remember.
I'd echo some of the comments above about manual safeties. I've seen many instances at the range where a pistol was declared "jammed," only to find that the shooter had not disengaged the safety. If it happens often there, it's quite likely going to happen on a fairly frequent basis under the stress of an actual self-defense situation.
I've also experienced safeties on semi-automatics that are so easy to manipulate that they inadvertantly become disengaged. Combine that with the unfortunate presumptions that some make about "safed" guns, and you have yet another recipe for an accidental discharge.
The one thing I do like about manual safeties has been mentioned above--in the event of a gun grab, there's some possibility that the grabber may not know/think to disengage the safety, giving you a bit of a chance to avoid being shot with your own gun. However, on balance, I think that the advantages of the "safety-less" pistols outweigh the disadvantages.
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