76shuvlinoff
Member
My 870 has a two rd extended mag and is stuffed with 2 3/4 00 ... except for the last round in the tube. (ergo first in the chamber) a 2 3/4 - 1 oz slug.
What is the best 12 gauge round for HD
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ArmyAviator
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May have been provided already....
...if not, compelling evidence.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958
...if not, compelling evidence.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958
Gun Master
Member
Best 12 ga. rd. for home defense
And the winner is..................... 00 Buck !
And the winner is..................... 00 Buck !
Gordon
Member
I like the same thing Fred Fuller likes. Really I feel very confident with a real short (as in 14" IC choke) 870 with 12" Hogue stock, with tritium rifle sights will Remington Manged Recoil 1 oz LE slugs.Pin point shot placement and decisive power to 50 yards. These slugs only have about the same penetration as a major caliber pistol round but make a 3/4" hole with no expansion and are very soft and usually open to an inch in the animals I've shot with them-ouchie mama!
leadcounsel
member
00 Buck. Effective, reliable, affordable, common.
1 oz slugs are available if needed.
What a unique topic. Never has this been asked before on any gun board...
By the way, consider if someone takes a shot from 1, 4, or 00 buck... They may not die instantly; heck they may even have a tiny bit of fight left in them. But I imagine at that point, having been shot in the leg or shoulder or chest... their 'fight or flight' mode will (in all but the most hardened motivated drugged individuals) likely switch to flight or medical care mode. These nit-picky "which round is the absolute best" threads get sooo yesterday sometimes.
1 oz slugs are available if needed.
What a unique topic. Never has this been asked before on any gun board...
By the way, consider if someone takes a shot from 1, 4, or 00 buck... They may not die instantly; heck they may even have a tiny bit of fight left in them. But I imagine at that point, having been shot in the leg or shoulder or chest... their 'fight or flight' mode will (in all but the most hardened motivated drugged individuals) likely switch to flight or medical care mode. These nit-picky "which round is the absolute best" threads get sooo yesterday sometimes.
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lemaymiami
Member
As most have said... ordinary 2 3/4 shells with nine 00 buck...
If you ever actually see the results on a human torso of the above load at close quarters (15 meters or less) those terrible wounds will stick in your mind. The only ammo I ever carried on the street for my shotgun was basic Winchester or Remington issued ammo as described above. The one time I ever used it -I fired one shot and put all nine pellets in the chest cavity. The only thing I can think of that would have been more effective was a single shotgun slug, center of mass... That single round at a range (measured) of 40 feet ended the incident instantly.
If you ever actually see the results on a human torso of the above load at close quarters (15 meters or less) those terrible wounds will stick in your mind. The only ammo I ever carried on the street for my shotgun was basic Winchester or Remington issued ammo as described above. The one time I ever used it -I fired one shot and put all nine pellets in the chest cavity. The only thing I can think of that would have been more effective was a single shotgun slug, center of mass... That single round at a range (measured) of 40 feet ended the incident instantly.
Gordon
Member
The reason I like "low recoil " slugs is the ability to do a hostage rescue partial head shot across the house or around the yard. In my training on the Yavapai hostage mover only a slug will do it at 25 feet or more and it seems a likely possible scenario to me.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l53/tgianotti/IMG_0536.jpg
Moderator Note: The training referred to above is conducted by the Yavapai Firearms Academy on their Mirage Target System developed by head trainer Louis Awerbuck. Mr. Awerbuck is one of the world's foremost authorities on the defensive use of shotguns. While a hostage rescue shot is highly unlikely it is one of the final exercises taught in all YFA classes. The staff and owners of THR wish to emphasize that a hostage rescue shot is a highly unlikely scenario, and that it should be attempted only by properly trained individuals.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l53/tgianotti/IMG_0536.jpg
Moderator Note: The training referred to above is conducted by the Yavapai Firearms Academy on their Mirage Target System developed by head trainer Louis Awerbuck. Mr. Awerbuck is one of the world's foremost authorities on the defensive use of shotguns. While a hostage rescue shot is highly unlikely it is one of the final exercises taught in all YFA classes. The staff and owners of THR wish to emphasize that a hostage rescue shot is a highly unlikely scenario, and that it should be attempted only by properly trained individuals.
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leadcounsel
member
< Edited by moderator > Highly dangerous and highly unlikely... I cannot recall a single incident in the news of a civilian shooting a hostage taker in a hostage rescue situation. Heck, it's extremely rare for professionals...
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Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
The old didactic urge kicks in here again ...
When you start thinking about using a shotgun to shoot a bad guy off a hostage, keep in mind that you may be launching secondary projectiles as well. Buckshot loads may have a wad or shot cup that will impact outside the pattern, even at close range. Even if the impact of the wad, as light as it is, might not be fatal, it can still destroy an eye or do other damage to innocents.
Slugs may have a sabot, a base wad that detaches in flight (accidentally or on purpose), or in one notable case I recall from a shotgun class a few years back, a plastic ball in the base of the slug (those were also bouncing off steel targets and rebounding back uprange for 50 yards or more).
Once again - know what your chosen load will do in your shotgun before you depend on it for serious use!
When you start thinking about using a shotgun to shoot a bad guy off a hostage, keep in mind that you may be launching secondary projectiles as well. Buckshot loads may have a wad or shot cup that will impact outside the pattern, even at close range. Even if the impact of the wad, as light as it is, might not be fatal, it can still destroy an eye or do other damage to innocents.
Slugs may have a sabot, a base wad that detaches in flight (accidentally or on purpose), or in one notable case I recall from a shotgun class a few years back, a plastic ball in the base of the slug (those were also bouncing off steel targets and rebounding back uprange for 50 yards or more).
Once again - know what your chosen load will do in your shotgun before you depend on it for serious use!
Gun Master
Member
Best 12 ga. rd. for HD?
I recently heard an elderly gunsmith say, "The Police (non-specific) use #4 shot".
Any comments ?
I recently heard an elderly gunsmith say, "The Police (non-specific) use #4 shot".
Any comments ?
Armor Snail
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I have #4 BUCK loaded up in mine.
I use to use (practice with) 2¾" 00 Buck(Remington) and 1oz slugs in 2¾"(Winchester).
When I switched to the 2¾" S&B #4 buck I was much faster shooting and it was much more controllable.
I'm hooked. Each round patterns inside a paper plate at 7 yrds. Minute of torso is good enough for me.
I use to use (practice with) 2¾" 00 Buck(Remington) and 1oz slugs in 2¾"(Winchester).
When I switched to the 2¾" S&B #4 buck I was much faster shooting and it was much more controllable.
I'm hooked. Each round patterns inside a paper plate at 7 yrds. Minute of torso is good enough for me.
shiftyer1
Member
My first round is bird shot, mostly because i'll shoot a snake long before a bad guy. then it's buckshot and lastly a slug.
Gun Master
Member
12 gauge shot size fo HD
Apparently my friend meant " #4 Buck " shot, not " #4 (bird) " shot.
This could be compared to shooting a buck/man, as opposed to a pheasant/turkey/duck.
The "00 Buck Shot" has 8 pellets, while "#4 Buck Shot" has 21 pellets (approx. 2 1/2 times as many pellets), and about 1/4" diameter per ball (00 Buck has approx. 1/3" diameter). Take your pick, and perhaps something in between.
As a side note, U.S. Park Rangers have been issued 12 gauge shotguns with rifled slugs, where some large bear control problems have occurred. I'm sure this was black bear control. Not sure re: "Grizz" (I'd want to "be" sure if I were involved).
Apparently my friend meant " #4 Buck " shot, not " #4 (bird) " shot.
This could be compared to shooting a buck/man, as opposed to a pheasant/turkey/duck.
The "00 Buck Shot" has 8 pellets, while "#4 Buck Shot" has 21 pellets (approx. 2 1/2 times as many pellets), and about 1/4" diameter per ball (00 Buck has approx. 1/3" diameter). Take your pick, and perhaps something in between.
As a side note, U.S. Park Rangers have been issued 12 gauge shotguns with rifled slugs, where some large bear control problems have occurred. I'm sure this was black bear control. Not sure re: "Grizz" (I'd want to "be" sure if I were involved).
I use 3.5" Wingmaster with 20" rifle sight plus choke tubes. The stock fit is perfect for me so I can use 7/8 or 1oz 1300fps "combat slugs" instead of buckshot. Quite frankly with availability of tactical slugs from companies like Federal, Fiocchi, Rottweil or S&B (theirs is called target slug) the BK shot is outdated concept. I will concede that "blind man" shooting ill fitting scatter gun at longer ranges would be better off using buck shot .
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Based only on reading, I would suggest low recoil 00 buckshot. Control, penetration, effective stopping power within home defence distance.
If home defence includes shooting outside (some seem to think it does in some instances), a few slugs might come in handy. The 2 3/4" Challenger brand patterned very well out of my shotgun.
I personally do not use a shotgun (or any gun) for home defence, so I did not choose a round for the job.
For zombie duty, 3" 000 seems like cool stuff. Would suggest an excellent, thick recoil pad for that stuff. I know for a fact it hurts on both ends of the shotgun.
If home defence includes shooting outside (some seem to think it does in some instances), a few slugs might come in handy. The 2 3/4" Challenger brand patterned very well out of my shotgun.
I personally do not use a shotgun (or any gun) for home defence, so I did not choose a round for the job.
For zombie duty, 3" 000 seems like cool stuff. Would suggest an excellent, thick recoil pad for that stuff. I know for a fact it hurts on both ends of the shotgun.
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