What's up with all the .40S&W ragging?

[Walkalong]

The .45 ACP is, by today's standards, an antiquated round.

That is good to hear. It makes it a nice match for my antiquated 1911.

"The .45 ACP in a 1911, still dropping bad guys after all these years."

 

[mavracer]

Ah, i see you've never fired .40 minor loads.

Because a .22 kicks less than a 9mm. Shooting .40 minor is pretty close to shooting a .22

.
Ah, I see you missed the day they taught Newton's third law.
and yes I've shot 40 minor out of a G35 and 9mm minor out of a G34 along with about 6 others to settle this exact argument. Your 22 comparison isn't even close unless the only 22 you've shot was a Colt Ace.

 

[Skribs]

Walkalong, they are both antiquated. Just because they work doesn't mean they're the best tool for the job. But, inversely, just because something isn't the best tool for the job doesn't mean it doesn't work.

David, I'm having a hard time following your philosophy. You state that the recoil doesn't matter if you use proper technique, and then you say that people dampen recoil for improved effect. That's what mavracer was pointing out (I think) that those two ideas are contradictory.

 

[RichM]

Aren't choices great.
I have reloading dies for 5 different pistol caliber, I don't want another. So don't think I'll be picking up a 9mm anytime soon.
Shoot the biggest caliber you can comfortably shoot.

Blonde, Brunette or Red head. They are all fun.

 

[David E]

.
I've shot 40 minor out of a G35 and 9mm minor out of a G34 along with about 6 others to settle this exact argument.

Sounds like you didn't use a good .40 minor load.

 

[mavracer]

Sounds like you didn't use a good .40 minor load.

125 power factor is 17 pound feet of momentum no matter what the weight or diameter the bullet is. If you think it recoils less that's great, enjoy your fantasy.

 

[David E]

David, I'm having a hard time following your philosophy. You state that the recoil doesn't matter if you use proper technique,

Using factory loads in full size guns, correct.

and then you say that people dampen recoil for improved effect.

.40 minor (properly loaded) kicks less than factory 9mm. Enough less to make one feel like he's cheating, as kick is extremely minimal. Why put up with kick when you don't have to? Can you tweak 9mm for even less kick? Sure, it'll kick less than factory and it's not a bad idea.

Then why would you want to load .40 minor? Mainly for IDPA and USPSA shooting. Using a .40 allows you to shoot one gun/caliber in several divisions with different power factors and be competitive in each. You can't say the same thing about the 9mm, at least in USPSA.

 

[David E]

125 power factor is 17 pound feet of momentum no matter what the weight or diameter the bullet is. If you think it recoils less that's great, enjoy your fantasy.

If you ever shoot a match near me, I'll let you shoot my gun and loads. After which, I'll gladly accept your apology for your above statement.

 

[Skribs]

Why put up with kick when you don't have to?

I'm not trying to attack you here, but this statement contradicts pretty much everything I've seen you say in caliber wars in the past regarding the lower recoil of the 9. You've pretty much shrugged it off and said the higher recoil of the .45 doesn't matter.

 

[XTrooper]

I shoot .40 S&W almost exclusively and don't give a rat's behind what others shoot or why. This simplifies things for me.

 

[beatledog7]

Then again, this was not supposed to be a cartridge war. I guess you can't have a rational discussion about why a cartridge is maligned by so many without getting into the pros and cons of its competition.

And speaking of that competition, it is interesting to note that we've bled over into calling the .45ACP an antiquated cartridge. Definitions matter, and by some definitions, it is antiquated. By those definitions, so are the 7.62x54R, 45-70, 30-30, 30-06, .38SPL, 45 Colt, etc. Sounds like another thread topic to me.

But back to the .40S&W. For those who are currently in the market for something in .40cal, or may be at some time in the near future, what guns are you considering, and why? What is influencing you to look at the .40cal? Will you be going .40 in a platform that you already have in 9mm?

 

[DNS]

I don't have a dog in this fight since i prefer 9mm. What i do have is a bad wrist and find the .40 is too snappy for me to comfortably shoot more that a couple rounds.

I can shoot a fifty round box of 45 acp before i have to stop, so my experience tells me the. 40 has way too much snap for me to enjoy.

"Antiquated".
Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[David E]

I'm not trying to attack you here, but this statement contradicts pretty much everything I've seen you say in caliber wars in the past regarding the lower recoil of the 9. You've pretty much shrugged it off and said the higher recoil of the .45 doesn't matter.

I said "with properly executed technique, you can shoot factory 9mm/.40/.45 equally well in full size guns."

I never said they all kick the same.

 

[mavracer]

I said "with properly executed technique, you can shoot factory 9mm/.40/.45 equally well in full size guns."

So lets see if I have this straight. You shoot 134PF 9mm, 175PF .40 and 205PF .45 equally well. But 125PF 40 so much better than 134PF 9mm it's like your shooting 46PF 22 lr.
Gee I don't know why anybody wouldn't buy that. Anybody want some ocean front property in Oklahoma?
It's not that I hate the 40 it's called apathy. I just don't care for it and I don't believe in magic.

 

[David E]

So lets see if I have this straight. You shoot 134PF 9mm, 175PF .40 and 205PF .45 equally well.

First of all, no need to always be so hostile. Your Power Factors are high, but basically, yes. (so could YOU if you took the time to learn and practice said technique. I'm not claiming superhuman powers here)

But 125PF 40 so much better than 134PF 9mm it's like your shooting 46PF 22 lr.

No, I said its "pretty close." It's better enough to matter, which was only part of my point.

It's not that I hate the 40 it's called apathy. I just don't care for it and I don't believe in magic.

I don't care if you don't like it, don't understand it or can't handle it. Shoot what you want.

 

[k_dawg]

Aside from those with smaller hands, I fail to see any advantage of the .40S&W over the 10mm in the use of a SD firearm.

A few bucks here or there should not matter when your life depends on it.

 

[mavracer]

First of all, no need to always be so hostile. Your Power Factors are high, but basically, yes.

No need to be defensive, it's not hostility, they're called facts. Those power factors are figured from American Eagle and Winchester factory ammo.

 

[David E]

No need to be defensive, it's not hostility, they're called facts. Those power factors are figured from American Eagle and Winchester factory ammo.

Well, the fact is, you can shoot those calibers at those power factors equally well in full size guns using properly executed technique.

That YOU can't do it means your skill level isn't where it could be.

 

[mavracer]

Well, the fact is, you can shoot those calibers at those power factors equally well in full size guns using properly executed technique.

If that were a fact there would be no advantage to shooting minor power factor.

That YOU can't do it means your skill level isn't where it could be.

And I'm hostile. LOL

 

[David E]

Whats hostile about agreeing with your admitted lack of skill?

I'm sure that if I got you to actually to do it yourself (AND YOU COULD) you still wouldn't believe it...

Whatever.

 

[Sam1911]

Ok...looks like we're down to picking nits off the logs in each other's eyes.