Why Isn't the M-1 Carbine the 1st Assault Weapon

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The VW type 181 (aka "the thing") is not the civilian version of the Kubelwagen (german for "bucket car") It has similarities in profile and similar chassis. Different suspension, different transmission, different engine, no rifle rack or mg mount and the spare was in the trunk, not on the roof. All the tactical tools were gone

AKA could be used for "sporting purposes" in political speak;) and not so different a comparison from the STG44 "assault rifle" and the AR-15 that most folks call an "assault rifle"

The funny thing is there are probably more people killed in or by VWs than with "assault rifles", in fact select-fire battle rifles have probably killed less american civilians in crimes than any other type of firearm
 
when someone said "the thing" I thought "Ontos".

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62395&stc=1&d=1187139520

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The assault rifle is a part of a strategy or tactic. The STG44 was designed with the intent of using for that purpose as earlier designs would not. Another "feature" to be considered would be a design that would be inexpensive to produce, so that it would be available in quantity. The term "assault rifle" has lost its meaning anyway.
 
My old vw did have a pistol grip shifter...And a reverse lock. It even had dual-twin barrel dellorto carburetors. And come to think of it, I built it a custom, bright red silencer that increased efficency and flow without ruining proper back pressure. It did have a gas operated pistol setup, but it was not fully automatic. Come to think of it, when I first got it it was select fire. But it did the selecting and most of the time is didn't select cylinder #3.
 
"...that the .30 carbine is based on..." The .30 carbine was based on the .32 Winchester SL, not Pedersen's .30 calibre.
The M1 Carbine was the first "assualt rifle" because by definition it isn't one. There have been exactly two assualt rifles. Ever. The STg44 and the AK-47. Everything else, since, is a battle rifle.
 
Jim Watson Scares the Heck outta me Quote:
Because we are not Krauts we don't get to make up kewl words like Sturmgewehr. And because we are nice Americans, we don't assault anybody.
Jim Stop predicting the future! Our nice politicians will get to muckin with our military and tell them to play nice. :fire:
 
There have been exactly two assualt rifles. Ever. The STg44 and the AK-47. Everything else, since, is a battle rifle.

That's kind of an idiosyncratic classification that I don't think most authorities in the field would endorse.
 
Because we are not Krauts we don't get to make up kewl words like Sturmgewehr. And because we are nice Americans, we don't assault anybody
depending on the culture and the times different societies name rifles accordingly, but following the same logic (for fun:D)

SMLE mkIV : her majesty's fine besmerching arm

Arisaka type 99 : super rifle #1

PRoC type 56 : feirce dragon that spreads water lillies

USSR ak-47 : the proud sweat of the proletariat produces this to defend mother russia from capitalist pigs

M16 : the fist of democracy

C7 : show those hosers who's boss eh.

HK43 : for the shooting of girly men

Chauchat : le club

Phased plasma rifle in the 40w range : go pick on another planet
 
Assault rifle is a term that is pretty well understood to mean a rifle with selct fire capability and firing an intermediate cartridge between an full power mmilitary cartridge and a pistol round.

As another poster noted, Hitler had given express orders that no new rifles were to be developed, but based on German research post WWI, the High Coomand saw a role for an intermediate cartridge that would operate effectively out to 300 yards or so to replace the SMG (really, a 50-100 yard weapon). The weapon was initially released as the MP43, and MP44 before becoming the 'assault rifle' StG44. There is some debate about whether the StG was originally classed as an MP to conceal a new rifle or because that is where it fit in the High Commands thinging (A superior SMG). Both Russia and Germany were huge users of the SMK, whereas the US, with it's 'rifleman' mentality considered the Garand the premier infantry weapon (althoyg issuing plenty of carbines and SMGs).

It should be remembered that the focus of the German infactry squad wa=s the machinegun (MG34 and MG43) and the other members of the squad were basically there to protect the machinegunners who were expected to handle the serious killing.

The US was certainly no pioneer in the assasult rifle, and in fact actively opposed any adoption of that type of weapon post WWII. All of the Allies except the US heavily favored producing something akin to the StG44 after the was. FNs FAL was originally chambered in the german 7.92x33mm at the insistence of the British, and Allied weapon development focused on and intermediate round (e.g. the British 280).

With the establishment of NATO, the decision was made to standardize on a rifle round, and the US pretty much rammed the 308 down the throat of the other members, with the understanding that the other members would select the common rifle.

The other members of NATO chose the FAL, at which point the US decided to go it's own way and adopt the M14 - a 'product improved' M1 Garand.

The whole stody is quite interesting - particularly the influene of a single man - Col Rene Studler - on the US adoption of the M14 and the repudiation of the whole assasult rifle concept. See "The Great Rifle Controversy" by Ezell.
 
As far as the German history of the assault rifle, it may bear noting that the original (pre-WW2) nomenclature for that class of weapons that eventually became know as Sturmgewehrs was Maschinenkarabine (my German spelling may be off, but "Machine Carbine" in any case).

Might also be worth noting that in the post-WW2 German speaking world, West Germany classed infantry rifles as Gewehr-#, regardless of whether it is a battle rifle or assault rifle or whatever. The East Germans classified their Kalashnikov clones as a machine pistol (MPiK-74 is, if I recall correctly, the nomenclature for their version of the AK-74 for instance). The Austrians called everything a Sturmgewehr -- FAL was StG-58 in their military use, the AUG is the StG-77. I suspect that both East and West Germany avoided "sturmgewehr" because of its association with Hitler, Austria (being less hung up on exising every hint and echo of the Nazi era) used the term to describe (apparently) any post-WW2 self-loading infantry rifle. In any case, looking at the German language to provide precise clues on intent is not going to be much more productive than doing the same thing in English.
 
i knew it was"intermediate" but i did'nt know how "intermediate" 7.63 x 39 was till i looked up 7.62x25 and 7.62 x 54 on ammoguide. i have always thought aks were more like magnum sub-guns than rifles.
 
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