Wilson Case Gage

[Wilburt]

I’ve been loading .45 ACP for a couple of years now with pretty good success. I recently bought a Wilson Max Cartridge case gage in .45 ACP. I did so because I bought a Nighthawk T3 (4.25" 1911) with an overly tight chamber. Before that, I always loaded .45 ACP for my other 1911’s with little problems.

My loads generally consist of 200 gr LSWC (Missouri IDP #1) and 200 gr Berry’s HP. When I bought the T3, I started having several FTF’s. I tried several magazines. I even tried loading some 230 gr Rainer RN’s. I couldn’t get those to reliably feed. They did feed well in my other 1911’s though.

Store bought “ball” ammo didn’t have problems though. When I started to use the case gage, I found that about 50% of my ammo didn’t drop flush in the gage. It would be barely above flush or so. If I forced the round into the gage flush and then pull it back out, it usually drops flush on the second or third time.

Crimp? I seen several threads on this and feel I have a good handle on it. I crimp to about .470 (Just enough to take the bell out. More has resulted in a slightly mashed bullet.)

Sample load:

Mixed Brass
Win WLP Primer
5.0 grs WST
OAL 1.250
Crimp .470

I have a few questions:

1. How do I change my loading practices to make sure the ammo is flush?

2. Is pushing the round (forcing) into the case gage, pulling it out, and dropping it back in bad?

3. I know some may suggest crimp but .470 is just taking the bell out?

4. Anything else to help me tighten my loading procedures.

 

[Steve Marshall]

You obviously need to crimp a bit more. Try this . Load up , say 50 rounds. Check them in your gage. The ones that don't go, set aside. Take some of the ones that fail the gage and see if they fail the gun. I'm betting that some will. Now take the ones that failed the gage and crimp again. If they still fail the gage, turn in your crimp die, say a 1/16th of a turn. Retest. Eventually, all rounds will pass the gage and pistol. And forget about the .470" dimension. It's likely you aren't measuring it properly. Your brass varies in wall thickness, is not straight or round. We aren't talking 1/32", we're talking a few thou or even tenths. When you run your finger over the crimp and it feels smooth, you've got it right.

 

[rfwobbly]

Steve gave you some good ideas, but I would step back just a minute to make sure we're not over looking any of the obvious basics. Some thoughts....

• When I received my last Wilson gauge it still had a lot of metal dust embedded in the shipping grease. The gauge would not measure correctly until I thoroughly cleaned the inside.
• I was having the same issue you report for weeks. Dillon products have always been top-notch in my book, so I never even suspected my used set of dies. Finally in desperation I replaced the taper crimp die with a newly purchased Lee version. The issue instantly disappeared.

Hope these ideas helps!

 

[Randy1911]

Check and see if you have any kind of marks on the case rim. I was having the same sort of problem with my .223's. They would go in the gage but just barly not go flush. I took some wet/dry sandpaper 400 grit and lightly sanded the case rims. All the ones that failed now passed perfectly. With a tight chamber this could be your problem. Worth looking into.

P.S. All the factory ammo gaged perfectly just like yours. New cases I guess.

 

[Wilburt]

All good. stuff. I did clean the gage before I started. I have 4 different crimp dies. 2 Hornady, 1 RCBS (crimp/seat), and 1 Lee FCD. Currently using the Hornady, but I guess I could swap it to see if it helps.

I guess next time I load I'll try what Steve said. I am a bit wary of it just because I've pulled bullets with a .468 crimp and seen a deformation ring in the lead. But, I'm open to anything to learn and make better ammo. When I measure the crimp, I check a couple different times right where the brass meets the bullet. It's round, so when I check in different spots, it usually varies by ~.0005. Yes, my Lyman caliper has a little 5 when it's in the middle.

Brass rim? Now that you mention that, I think I've read that somewhere before. Might try this one if all else fails. Seems pretty tedious so I hope this isn't the case.

 

[243winxb]

Check COL, deeper might be better sSeat and crimp in separate operations. More crimp. Just taking the bell out does not always work in a tight chamber. Last thing, cast bullets, a .452" Lswc might need to be sized to .451".

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, .451 lead, or plated, or segregate your Remington brass (thinner) for use in the Nighthawk. Sounds like your crimp is OK. I had an EMP with a chamber below SAMMI min. SA touched it up with a reamer and all is well. But you say factory ammo chambers OK, so while it may be a tight chamber, it is probably OK.

I would hate to suggest using .......you know what.

 

[bob40232]

I have used a taper crimp die to solve similar problems.

 

[Innovative]

bob40232 ......

I agree with using a taper crimp die. It's the only way to crimp the 45ACP.
This is a separate die that reduces the front edge of the the case .002" smaller than the case diameter of your loaded round.

- Innovative

 

[Walkalong]

The taper crimp die will reduce the case mouth as much, or as little, within the limits of the die, as you adjust it for. You need to remove the bell, and a hair more. No more, no less, give or take a half a hair. I don't measure mine, but .002 sounds good to me.

I still believe Wilburt's crimp is OK. I am having faith in Wilburt and his ability to crimp .45 ACP here.

 

[Wilburt]

Update

I made 50 rounds and checked them with the gage. I made sure the were as free of lube as possible. During these test I found out how little of residual lube can make a round fail the gage.

10 passed.
39 failed by a small margin.
1 failed by a bit.

The one that was worse than the others had a ding in the rim. As Randy1911 stated, a little file/sanding fixed it to just failing by a small margin. I then switched my crimp dies to the other Hornady one I have. It was set the same so I turned it down a bit at a time until one of the failed rounds passed. For this round it was .469". I ran the rest of them though at that level of crimp.

Now 50% passed and the one that didn't were ever so lightly over. Very small amount. A few required brass rim touch-ups. So I concluded that .468-.469" should make all pass. I didn't try .468 yet and haven't pulled any of the .469" for bullet deformation. I hope these all run without hiccups in the nighthawk. I guess now I need to check accuracy difference as well.

Thanks for all the help. I think sizing the lead to .451 would help in this case and prevent any bullet deformation. I will have to try and make up some Berry HP's and see if the same is true.

 

[USSR]

I think sizing the lead to .451 would help in this case and prevent any bullet deformation.

Yep. I had the same problem. I also bought the Wilson Max Gauge and it was a big help in identifying the problem. Bullets sized to .452 were just too big. With .451 sized bullets, just keep adding more taper crimp until they fit.

Don

 

[Shrinkmd]

So if a resized case passes the gauge with flying colors, but once you load a bullet into it doesn't drop all the way in (sometimes as much as 1-2 mm poking out) how do you explain that? I have found some cases with dinged rims, but these case rims look fine.

I am specifically complaining about some CBC 9mm brass, which I see other people in a different post (as well as my other post complaining about this) have had some issues with.

I don't shoot enough 9mm to justify purchasing the Case Pro 100! Although if the resized brass gauges ok, why would seating the bullet make it not gauge anymore? Too thick case walls?

 

[1SOW]

So if a resized case passes the gauge with flying colors, but once you load a bullet into it doesn't drop all the way in (sometimes as much as 1-2 mm poking out) how do you explain that? I have found some cases with dinged rims, but these case rims look fine

.

Shrinkmd: You didn't give the oal, bullet type/size or gun, but If it's NOT the case, then it could be OAL or the taper crimp causing the problem.

oal: It could be just touching the leade. Do the drop-in check with a 'spent' CBC case, by hand insert a bullet and check for max oal.

crimp: just enough to remove the 'small' bell your powder die made. .377"-.378"ish. Compare this diameter with a round that does feed.

 

[Shrinkmd]

9mm CBC cases, 124 gr LRN bullets, 1.125" OAL, and my taper crimp was .378

Most of the rounds were ok, but easily 5-10% were no good. That is way too many.

And when I was loading for 40S&W or 45ACP I haven't had any issues like this. So I'm wondering if something weird is up with either the bullets or the brass.