Youth and Toy guns. *Vids*

[boredelmo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBcpTG2rPIY&mode=related&search=


While I'm all for letting my little brother have toy guns, I can't imagine what kind of talk I'd have to have with him if he did something like this.

I have taught my 4 year old brother the Four Rules even if he is playing with toy guns.

I can't imagine what kind of parenting led to this. :banghead:

On the otherside of the spectrum, here is a video of my little brother shooting an airsoft gun of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9U1x3kew0U

Notice where his finger is before he shoots, I'm so proud . Sorry I'm speaking to him in Manderin.

Yes, its 4:00 I am a bit bored.

-Elmer

 

[XavierBreath]

You know, I am sometimes taken to task because I lump toy guns into the same category as real ones when it comes to the 4 safety rules.

True, toy guns will likely never kill anyone unless they disassemble them and then choke on the pieces. Even more insidious and dangerous though, are the perceptions they create among youngsters who are just learning about firearms. What we learn first is what we tend to remember, and what we eventually become. If we learn that firearms, even toy firearms, are fine to use in this manner, then we tend to not take the 4 rules as seriously. As a result, as well, we tend to view death as a temporary abstract condition, not a permanent one.

There was a time that I grew up in where almost every third grade boy got a .22 rifle for Christmas. The real question was whether it would be a Savage, Mossberg, or Marlin, not whether you would get one. Often, boys carried these rifles to school, locked them in their lockers, and then took them home afterwards with no incident. Know what? We all felt safe with them doing it too. (Of course we still sat under our desks in case the commies dropped the A bomb...)

Back then younger boys used pellet guns and BB guns to hunt song birds. I did as well. Killing your first beautiful bird is a sobering experience. The different emotional reactions to the songbird's death showed us all the differences within ourselves, and often broke up friendships. The birds did not die in vain, however. The one inescapable fact that each bird's loss of life taught all of us, is death is permanent. Thus, when we received our "real" rifle, we knew what we held, and what it could do if used improperly.

We all took more responsibility for what we owned and for what it could do back then. Parents took responsibility for their children. Yes, we played army, but this kind of misguided nihilistic behavior was rare. When it reared it's ugly head among children, they shunned it themselves. They were taught to do so by parents who understood the dangers, and not by a pop culture that glorifies violence. This is why I am opposed to toy guns being used in this manner.

 

[jamz]

My 7 year old boy shoots my real guns a fair bit, knows and follows the four rules (though rule number three is sometimes tough due to his short fingers, depending on the gun), but we make a distinction between toy guns and real guns.

Then again, we've never given him a toy gun any different than a nerf gun that shoots darts.

We also make a huge distinction between "playing" with a gun, and using one in anger... last week, he had his nerf gun in his hand, his younger sister made him mad, and he cocked his pistol, aimed it at her, changed his mind at the very last minute, moved his point of aim and shot his mom instead.

Hooo boy, was he in trouble!

For me, any gun that shoots a potentially harmful projectile (Airsoft, Softair, paintball, etc) gets treated as a real gun. Guns that shoot nothing, or shoot intentionally soft things (Nerf) don't. (Though they still won't be used as weapons when one gets angy)

 

[Pork Fat]

4 Rules with toy guns?

If safety rules are strictly enforced with toy guns there would be little fun in playing with them. While I agree that firearms safety should be learned early and reinforced often, some of these threads are laying it on a bit thick. I call it the "Safer Than Thou Syndrome".
My Dad, my brother, friends and myself were constantly pointing our cap guns at items we did not wish to destroy. In our epic running backyard shootouts, we most often pointed at each other. There was no grisly portent of future horror, just boys and a boyish grownup well aware of the difference between real and make-believe. We would riddle each other dozens of times with ring cap devastation and then laugh our way into the house to wash up for supper.
I believe that negligent discharges and the resultant tragedies are caused by ignorance and brain farts. I don't make connections to summertime squirtgun battles causing later lax attitudes concerning other things with triggers. The kids in that video hamming it up with a toy gun are not rehearsing a future tragedy.
If "Safer Than Thou" is followed to it's logical conclusion I wonder at the results. Pedal cars would have functioning turn indicators. Playing with a toy drill or saw would require eye and ear protection. The baby doll could not be left unattended.
I would imagine that the first toy gun was devised within hours of the first real one. Distraught handwringing over the thought of children actually PLAYING with the horrible things is much more recent. I would hate for a common sense oriented community like this one to buy into the fear of weapons by starting with the toy ones.

 

[bigun15]

Foreword: What I say is being said for age group 15-18 from first hand experience.

I can tell you that from the youth perspective we do know the difference. I've gone out with a friend with a couple airsoft guns and if someone cheated or something in an XBOX game there was a "Mexican Standoff" with both of us pointing the guns at each other but not shooting. This same person went with me to New Mexico, where we fired off 100 rounds from an AK47 and 750 rounds of .22 and it was perfectly safe.

We know what hurts, and what kills. When it's airsoft it's not too big a deal unless you actually shoot someone, in which case they shoot back and the when the number of welts is about even the battle is done.

The airsoft is SO much different than the real guns. When I'm hunting I am constantly watching the barrel to make sure it isn't at anyone and looking to the sides before bringing it from pointing up to pointing down. When it's airsoft everyone is always on the business end.

I have proven this to myself more than once and would be more than happy to do it again.

 

[swingset]

I grew up in the 70's, in a small town of 3,000 people.

Of the 100 or so boys my age that played "War" and "Army" as a national past time - nearly every day we could, aiming our plastic guns at each other with total abandon was what it was all about.

4 rules? For toy guns!?!?!? Give me a break.

Kids playing with toy guns is 100% harmless, if they also have been taught REAL gun safety and responsibility. All of us in that town were children of hunters, gun nuts and shooters. All of us. None of our fathers scolded us for playing with toy guns, in fact some fathers played along. No one ever minded that we aimed them at each other. Hell, that was THE POINT!!!!

We knew, like all sane children should know, that real guns had real rules, and toy guns had toy rules.

How utterly sad, that young boys have to learn the "4 rules" and abide them before taking to the field of battle against their playmates (if that's even permitted). Ugh.

 

[Geronimo45]

One of the four rules is to not point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy - how the heck do you use a toy gun without violating that rule?

 

[boredelmo]

Airsoft guns. 300-500fps will pop out an eye easy.

 

[cracked butt]

I grew up in the 70's, in a small town of 3,000 people.

Of the 100 or so boys my age that played "War" and "Army" as a national past time - nearly every day we could, aiming our plastic guns at each other with total abandon was what it was all about.

4 rules? For toy guns!?!?!? Give me a break.

You didn't use dirt clods as grenades did you? You know that kids throwing dirt clods might grow up to violate laws on destructive devices.

I once had a stick that was an anti-tank weapon, and another that was a sword.

 

[WinchesterAA]

Dunno about all of that.. Cops and robbers was some fun time back in the day with cap guns.

Then came BB wars, then came improved BB wars with fortified treehouses with draw ladders and glass shard bombs for anyone who tried to climb the entrance tree regardless of the ladder.

Then we all got older and moved on to paintball guns. There was not a single tree in my backyard that wasn't some vibrant shade of yellow, pink, blue, etc etc before a rain.

I'm as safe a gun handler as any though.. well, prolly a little safer than most.

 

[cracked butt]

I have taught my 4 year old brother the Four Rules even if he is playing with toy guns.

I'm one up on you. My 4 yo knows the difference between toy and real guns, and he can disassemble and reassemble a K-31 bolt.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Airsoft guns. 300-500fps will pop out an eye easy.

And most of us wouldn't give our 6 year old boy an airsoft gun, because we know that they can cause serious injury if proper protective gear is not used.

Airsoft is designed for simulated combat by people old enough to understand it.

True toy guns are quite different. The kind that fire foam darts or water (or simply make noise) are the kind that were designed to be used by children in play. I grew up with cap guns, rubber band guns, noise makers, etc., and we used them as intended.

Nothing wrong with a few boys running around the back yard playing army or zinging each other with rubber bands in a bout of "cops and robbers". That's what boyhood is all about.

My aunt was one of those who believed her 2 boys should never be allowed to play with toy guns or other such things. I could go on and on about how that kind of sheltering impacted them later, but suffice it to say they left home at 15 and 16 years old respectively, and have little contact with her today.

 

[TX1911fan]

When I was a kid, we shot at each other with pellet and bb guns. Long range, but still, we did it. I don't do that now, and in fact, I don't even think about it, even with a bb gun. Toy guns are just that, toys. Should I tell my kids not to drive the car on Need For Speed on the XBox so fast as it might teach them that speeding is ok? If I can understand the difference between a toy and a real gun, I expect that my kids can too.

 

[ZXD9]

Man this brings back memories. 30 years ago I also played cops & robbers, cowboys and Indians, and Army with toy guns. Pointed them at each other and made shooting sounds with our mouths. If you were 'shot' you fell down dead, at least for 10 seconds before getting up and chasing the kid that just killed you. It was great fun, good exercise and sometimes entertained us for hours in the woods.

I had access to a .22 rifle as a kid and I never once pointed it at someone and pretended to shoot them. Why? Because I was taught properly how to handle a real gun by my father.

Let kids be kids but teach them the difference and enforce it. If my son who is starting to shoot BB guns breaks a rule and points his gun towards someone, he gets reprimanded, reminded of the rules and the gun taken away for awhile. He's never done it intentionally but he gets excited and forgets what he is doing sometimes. You have to remember to reinforce the positive behaviors too.

 

[Walkalong]

The video is another pitiful sign of what our society is leaning towards lately.

 

[Hoppy590]

Killing your first beautiful bird is a sobering experience. The different emotional reactions to the songbird's death showed us all the differences within ourselves, and often broke up friendships.

you said it. you learn more about a person in those few moments than you ever will in years of being friends

 

[shaggycat]

I played War, Army, Cowboys and Indians, etc religously growing up. My brother and I had and still have a huge box full of toy guns. It is what we liked. We grew up envisioning the warriors that protect our nation as heroes. Deep within us was the desire to be the fighter, to beat the bad guy and save the girl next door.

One time, my dad tried to outlaw toy guns from the house. I would pick up sticks and they became the exact same in my eyes.

I think it was a healthy adoration for our fighting men. Obviously, as a kid I didn't understand the sacrifices and difficulty of war, nor can I fully understand now.

However, both my brother and I are now lawful, 4 rule-abiding, NRA member gun owners.

And you know what? I am graduating a year early from college so I can join the Army. My brother is joining too.

It is natural for boys to want to be the warrior.



Saying that, when kids play with toy guns, simulated gang behavior should not be encouraged or condoned. So while I do not condone the youtube video, I think it is fine for boys to play with toy guns.