AR-10 Rifle vs. M1A Springfield Armory .308

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Stinger, back a few months ago we pretty much beat the M1A to death in this thread. So my guess is you never bought one but the thread pretty well covers all the flavors in detail. Sort of on the brink huh? :) Actually all things (and post) considered I really think a good choice for you would be a flat top version of an AR 10 and likely a DPMS flavor.

Ron
 
stinger 327 said:
So for mounting one scope and one aimpoint type of laser sight for quick target acquisition the AR-10 would be better for that? It's not possible to mount both types of optics on the M1A?
Click to expand...

Mounting two optics that normally sit over the bore on the same rifle is going to be a pain on any platform. You can use a mount with an additional rail above the scope:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/15...style-with-integral-rings-flattop-ar-15-matte
Or mount the aimpoint to the scope tube with something like:
http://www.larue.com/aimpoint-micro-t-1-ring-mount

Some options will probably give you a diagonal mount position where you'd rotate the rifle on your shoulder when shooting with the aimpoint.
 
"Free floating" barrels have nothing touching them but the receiver they're screwed into except for a front sight. No stock bedding pads touch the barrel anywhere.

Gas operated rifle barrels have a tube between the barrel and the bolt operating hardware. They're not free floating.

M1, M14 and M1 rifles have a band around their barrels whose bottom part hooks onto a stock ferrule applying several pounds of downward force on the barrel. So that adds another part that makes them not free floating. That ensures bullets leave on the bore axis upswing for positive compensation for different bullets' muzzle velocity.
 
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Bart, you're wrong again.

Free floating means that the barrel does not touch the stock/forearm. It has nothing to do with the barrel touching the gas block or gas tube, since holding the rifle doesn't put force on those parts. The whole point of being free floated is to avoid changing point of impact based on how the stock is being held or the firing position. The modern AR free float hand guards most definitely achieve that.
 
salt&battery said:
It is amazing that the OP has been a member for 7 years over 3000 posts and does not know the difference between the 2 rifles how to mount a scope on them or what a floated barrel means lol. well I like the pics shown and the responses but one does have to wonder
Click to expand...

Reason? Have been around handguns more.
index.php
so you can wonder all you want to now.
 
Reloadron said:
I don't know. I have been a member of this forum for awhile and have had an interest in guns and the shooting sports since about age 8 which was 1958. While over the years I have gained knowledge in many areas there are many guns today I know little about. I think we tend to learn more about the guns we have an interest in and enjoy shooting. Then a new (new to us) gun may pique our interest so we look to learn more about it.

Ron
Click to expand...
This is true and I concur 100% with you on this. Also the history of the gun has some interest and how it feels when you hold onto it. I have owned guns for over 30 years now. Just like tools you just accumulate them over time and each one may have a specific task.
 
Llama Bob said:
Mounting two optics that normally sit over the bore on the same rifle is going to be a pain on any platform. You can use a mount with an additional rail above the scope:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/15...style-with-integral-rings-flattop-ar-15-matte
Or mount the aimpoint to the scope tube with something like:
http://www.larue.com/aimpoint-micro-t-1-ring-mount

Some options will probably give you a diagonal mount position where you'd rotate the rifle on your shoulder when shooting with the aimpoint.
Click to expand...

That's what I mean. I saw this set up on an AR-15 and shot it. I liked the set up where the scope was used for longer range and to see further out and identify what is out there. Then you just twist rifle over and you can use aim point type of laser sight for closer range and quicker target acquisition. However this set up may not go well with a M1A but maybe with AR-10?
 
Llama Bob, will an AR barrel without the gas system attached to it vibrate at the same fundamental and harmonic frequencies in the same plane as it does with the gas system installed?

Will the vibration nodes in either barrel configuration be at the same place?

Free floating, to me and many others, means the barrel is "free" of any contact with any other part of the rifle except as I mentioned.
 
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Reloadron said:
Stinger, back a few months ago we pretty much beat the M1A to death in this thread. So my guess is you never bought one but the thread pretty well covers all the flavors in detail. Sort of on the brink huh? :) Actually all things (and post) considered I really think a good choice for you would be a flat top version of an AR 10 and likely a DPMS flavor.

Ron
Click to expand...
Well I didn't know about this AR-10 and just found out about it but need to learn more on it. It appears to be a modernized AR with rails and attachments which I am still learning about. It's sort of like a Lego gun with all of these attachments you could have on. But I am a traditionalist and I fell for the looks / styling and history of the Springfield M1A for long distance shooting. I am still interested in getting the Springfield Armory M1A National Match rifle. I was thinking of keeping it simple with less stuff on it which would only add bulk and weight. But as we age our eyes aren't what they used to be so optics really brings things in and improves accuracy performance vs. iron sights. I would normally buy both rifles if in doubt but I don't want to spend that kind of money at this time. Just one to start with. The AR-15 was appealing that I shot on range with the long distance scope then flipping it to the side to use Aim point laser type of sight but I would like to go with 308 caliber at this time for more distance.
 
According to Lee Emerson, the man who wrote the definitive history of the M14, states that the M14 was designed for a scope. Browning's first prototypes in 1944/1945 had scope mount capability.
 
Llama Bob said:
Bart, you're wrong again.

Free floating means that the barrel does not touch the stock/forearm. It has nothing to do with the barrel touching the gas block or gas tube, since holding the rifle doesn't put force on those parts. The whole point of being free floated is to avoid changing point of impact based on how the stock is being held or the firing position. The modern AR free float hand guards most definitely achieve that.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. A gas tube definitely prevents a rifle from being truly free floated.

The advantage of the AR-10/15 design is that the gas tube is light and not rigidly connected to the barrel or receiver, so when the barrel and gas tube heat up they don't put any pressure on each other. Cool design, and allows something functionally free floated.
 
stinger 327 said:
Well I didn't know about this AR-10 and just found out about it but need to learn more on it. It appears to be a modernized AR with rails and attachments which I am still learning about. It's sort of like a Lego gun with all of these attachments you could have on. But I am a traditionalist and I fell for the looks / styling and history of the Springfield M1A for long distance shooting. I am still interested in getting the Springfield Armory M1A National Match rifle. I was thinking of keeping it simple with less stuff on it which would only add bulk and weight. But as we age our eyes aren't what they used to be so optics really brings things in and improves accuracy performance vs. iron sights. I would normally buy both rifles if in doubt but I don't want to spend that kind of money at this time. Just one to start with. The AR-15 was appealing that I shot on range with the long distance scope then flipping it to the side to use Aim point laser type of sight but I would like to go with 308 caliber at this time for more distance.
Click to expand...

While the AR 10 did predate the AR 15 you may want to think of the AR 10 as an AR 15 on steroids. :) Just about all of the whistles and bells you can hang on an AR 15 can be hung on an AR 10. My rifle originally sported a 16" barrel before going to the 24" match barrel with the floated hand guard. Being an older AR-10(T) the rifle used what we refer to as the modified M-14 magazines. Since I have more magazines than I will ever need this is not a problem for me but should you choose an AR-10 type rifle you may want to note the type magazines it takes, their cost and their availability.

Ron
 
salt&battery said:
It is amazing that the OP has been a member for 7 years over 3000 posts and does not know the difference between the 2 rifles how to mount a scope on them or what a floated barrel means lol. well I like the pics shown and the responses but one does have to wonder
Click to expand...

You ought to ask me about shotguns or NFA items. I know little of the former and even less of the latter. It's easy to only open threads that one is interested in and ignore the rest. That's just me though. :D
 
stinger 327 said:
Reason? Have been around handguns more.
index.php
so you can wonder all you want to now.
Click to expand...
yes it is easy to wonder being there were 6 billion posts on AR rifles the most talked about rifle in the history of the world and you were here for 7 years. every molecule on an AR has been analyzed.
 
stinger 327 said:
$3,000 is out of my price range. $2,300 is probably my limit.
Click to expand...
In '94 I bought a SR-25 Match, my first AR-10 type rifle, in the beginning it went to the range with me every trip but after a few thousand rounds I got bored with it and it eventually became a safe queen. When it did go I'd set up 5 golf balls at 300 yards ... Picking them off was effortless and back to the safe it went. A beautiful Valmet M78 came along in 308 and I had to have it, being short on cash the Stoner found a new home and I had a new toy ... It didn't take long to regret that decision. Over the years I tried several different models to fill the void it, I tried an Armalite & DPMS neither had as nice of a trigger or measured up in accuracy or fit & finish and even though it was the same cartridge, everything about the Stoner was a much smoother rifle, even in recoil ... Ok, enough of all that!

A couple years ago the itch kicked in again and I picked up a SiG 716 DMR, it was better than the Armalite & DPMS but still didn't do it for me so I started looking for another SR-25. I saved a search on GunBroker with a price range of 0 to $2,400 and after a couple months one popped up and I bought it for $2,300, it has some finish wear and you can tell that it's been used, but like my first one, it will pop a golf ball at 300 yards with no problem ... It sits in the safe a lot too but it's good having it back.

Used upper end 10's are out there but patience is usually needed to find them ... Since then I've also built a 6.5 Creedmoor on a Spikes Jack 308 receiver using JP Enterprise parts, Geisselle 2-stage and the Magpul PRS stock ... It too will pop golf balls at 300 yards, it set me back about $2,700 plus glass but the receiver was $600 and there are less expensive 308 receivers abound ... regardless of all else, I would highly recommend the JP Super Match barrel!

PA260010.jpg
 
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RX-79G said:
No it doesn't. A gas tube definitely prevents a rifle from being truly free floated.

The advantage of the AR-10/15 design is that the gas tube is light and not rigidly connected to the barrel or receiver, so when the barrel and gas tube heat up they don't put any pressure on each other. Cool design, and allows something functionally free floated.
Click to expand...
So now you have to admit the AR design IS IN FACT FREE FLOATED since there is nothing putting pressure on the barrel. Got it.

You and Bart need to cut it with the extreme firearms ignorance. It just confuses people looking for correct information.
 
Llama Bob said:
So now you have to admit the AR design IS IN FACT FREE FLOATED since there is nothing putting pressure on the barrel. Got it.

You and Bart need to cut it with the extreme firearms ignorance. It just confuses people looking for correct information.
Click to expand...
No, I said that the M1A isn't free floated at all, and that the AR10 nearly is, and I explained why.

What does that have to do with you claiming the M1A can be free floated?
 
Reloadron said:
I don't know. I have been a member of this forum for awhile and have had an interest in guns and the shooting sports since about age 8 which was 1958. While over the years I have gained knowledge in many areas there are many guns today I know little about. I think we tend to learn more about the guns we have an interest in and enjoy shooting. Then a new (new to us) gun may pique our interest so we look to learn more about it.

Ron
Click to expand...
The more I learn about the ones I don't have, the more I want one.
 
Llama Bob, are you polite enough to answer my question? Here repeated to make it easy for you to find it:

Will an AR barrel without the gas system attached to it vibrate at the same fundamental and harmonic frequencies in the same plane as it does with the gas system installed?
Click to expand...
 
kimberkid said:
In '94 I bought a SR-25 Match, my first AR-10 type rifle, in the beginning it went to the range with me every trip but after a few thousand rounds I got bored with it and it eventually became a safe queen. When it did go I'd set up 5 golf balls at 300 yards ... Picking them off was effortless and back to the safe it went. A beautiful Valmet M78 came along in 308 and I had to have it, being short on cash the Stoner found a new home and I had a new toy ... It didn't take long to regret that decision. Over the years I tried several different models to fill the void it, I tried an Armalite & DPMS neither had as nice of a trigger or measured up in accuracy or fit & finish and even though it was the same cartridge, everything about the Stoner was a much smoother rifle, even in recoil ... Ok, enough of all that!

A couple years ago the itch kicked in again and I picked up a SiG 716 DMR, it was better than the Armalite & DPMS but still didn't do it for me so I started looking for another SR-25. I saved a search on GunBroker with a price range of 0 to $2,400 and after a couple months one popped up and I bought it for $2,300, it has some finish wear and you can tell that it's been used, but like my first one, it will pop a golf ball at 300 yards with no problem ... It sits in the safe a lot too but it's good having it back.

Used upper end 10's are out there but patience is usually needed to find them ... Since then I've also built a 6.5 Creedmoor on a Spikes Jack 308 receiver using JP Enterprise parts, Geisselle 2-stage and the Magpul PRS stock ... It too will pop golf balls at 300 yards, it set me back about $2,700 plus glass but the receiver was $600 and there are less expensive 308 receivers abound ... regardless of all else, I would highly recommend the JP Super Match barrel!

View attachment 756179
Click to expand...
Oh no more toys to add to the list. This is probably going to get very expensive$$. More research is needed. Decisions decisions.

I already know I won't be putting one together but will probably end up getting one fresh out of the box. $$$

What is a 6.5 Creedmoor? Is it an odd ball caliber? I haven't heard much about this one.
 
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Bart B. said:
Llama Bob, are you polite enough to answer my question? Here repeated to make it easy for you to find it:
Click to expand...

Your "question" has already been answered. ARs with appropriate hardware are free-floated. You are simply wrong and need to be in learning mode, not fake expert mode.
 
stinger 327 said:
What is a 6.5 Creedmoor? Is it an odd ball caliber? I haven't heard much about this one.
Click to expand...

It is a 6.5mm caliber using the .308 bolt face and OAL that fits in all .308-capable platforms. It's very similar to .260, but the case is slightly different with the shoulder farther back. This makes 6.5CM better than .260 for heavy bullets in guns where the 2.8" OAL limit can't be exceeded or not by much (e.g. AR10s).
 
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