Best Caliber? Modest Recoil for Antelope at 300/400 yards

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Fair point, and ill never argue with someone who wants to shoot a bonded or other high retention bullet (except for our feral goats 1/2" holes dont put them down quick enough) Especially if its being launched from magnums, the big ones.
Personally ive never had an issue with cup n cores, and amax and bergers at that. I will quite happily shoot thru shoulders and hips. Breaking a deer should is one of the quickest ways to anchor it. A hip/pelvis shot while far from ideal is much better than losing an animal, and ive used it multiple times.
Ive shot thru quite a few axis deer and some decent sized hogs (other stuff i shoot is 40-80lbs and the .223 goes thru them). With everything from the .243 to 300win, from close enough to almost touch the animal out to farther than i ever wanna go get one again. All shot with non high retention (@ 40+ bucks a box i call bergers premium), ive had some run, but never very far. Worse issue of stuff running ive had has been with my Grendel, which punched 1/2" exits on one, the amax performed pretty much exactly like a bonded would have.
 
I will HIGHLY recommend the 243. I've been shooting the 95gr SST bullet for several years and it has never failed and once you get the skin off, the entry and exit wounds are horrendous! They guys that nay-say the 243 are traditionally middle-age to older guys who tried the gun back in the 1980s or 90s when bullet technology was not nearly as advanced as today. Or you'll see the guy who tried the 243 with one type of bullet and had bad luck and now will completely trash the caliber. What you don't see and will never TRULY know is how much of that bad experience was based on a poorly placed shot. Oh sure, they will get on forums and tell you they made "good" shots, but if I can't verify, I don't buy that crap. And there's also people who completely give up on the caliber without trying another kind of bullet. They will just talk trash about the caliber and move up to a larger diameter because that's what they think will do a better job. 9 times out of 10, I don't pay any attention to the guys that talk down about the 243. I started hunting with a 243 as a kid and moved all the way up to 7mm Mag and 300 Mag with a dozen different calibers in between. I have since gone back to the 243 pretty much exclusively. I shoot 400 to 500 rounds of 243 in a given year. I know my rifles like the back of my hand and I can typically be surgical with my shot placement. Caliber choice aside, trigger time and practice is what makes a marksman and what takes game, not the caliber you shoot. Now for me, the gentle recoil of the 243 makes it that much easier for me to put a lot of rounds through my guns for practice during the year.

I noticed the OP mentioned the 6mm, but haven't seen anyone advise that the 6mm and 243 are so close in performance that there won't be any practical difference in the two. The 6mm will have less factory ammo choices and there are no current productions rifles being made in the 6mm caliber. The 6mm is a fine caliber, but it doesn't give you anything that the 243 can't give you except maybe a couple hundred FPS when using the lighter grain bullets. But in terms of performance on pronghorn to deer size game, I think the 243 is a better choice.

The 257 Roberts caliber has also been mentioned and I also shoot that caliber as well. Perfectly suitable for pronghorn and deer and a very under-rated caliber. The problem you run into is that there are very few current production rifles being made in 257 Roberts and there is not a very wide selection of factory ammo. Hornady makes a 117gr SST round that would be perfect, but it's not exactly inexpensive. Reloading would be the way to go with 257 Roberts and even then I still sometimes have trouble finding brass. It's a classic old cartridge, but unfortunately, there isn't a huge following for it and so ammo and components are not in large supply.

The 25-06 has been another good recommendation here and I used the shoot the 25-06 for probably 5 or 6 years with great success. But you've just moved up into a long action class cartridge and I've never been a fan of long action calibers, personally. If your max range is 400 yards, then the 25-06 is just starting to hit it's stride. It's capable of longer shots with a good flat trajectory. I used to shoot 115gr Ballistic Silvertips in the 25-06 I had and they did the job on several deer. The recoil was just almost to the edge of being uncomfortable for me and the muzzle blast was pretty significant so after a while I started grabbing the 243 instead of the 25-06 and after collecting dust in the safe, I eventually sold it.

My personal recommendation would be the 243 over any other caliber. Those of us who shoot them extensively and reload for them know what they are capable of doing. My second recommendation would be the 257 Roberts because I would like to see more and more people shooting the caliber and breathing new life into it. The 257 Roberts would be an ideal multi-purpose gun from large varmints to pronghorn, whitetail deer, mule deer, and even on elk.
 
I don't see much sense in going with anything more overbore than .243 for goats.
+1 on the .257 Roberts. I don't know of a better lesser known cartridge.
My personal preference is a 7mm (minimum) for Elk or Moose.
 
Llama Bob said:
I think CraigC has a point. Lots of cup and core bullets have a fairly narrow velocity window and unpredictable response to bone. If you're going to use a round that pushes velocity very high, then it seems sensible to choose a premium bullet. In fact, I can't think of a good reason not to use them across the board. Frankly no one hunts enough to ever notice the difference in cost.
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But an antelope is like a small yearling not a cape buffalo. how can core locs or any ordinary hunting bullet not be good for such a small slightly built animal
 
salt&battery said:
But an antelope is like a small yearling not a cape buffalo. how can core locs or any ordinary hunting bullet not be good for such a small slightly built animal
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When they blow up on a rib or shoulder due to excess velocity - that's how.

For a few cents extra you can make the problem go away. Given the cost of even the most economical hunt, that's trivial.
 
Yep, But you will just confuse our Eastern cousins. Speed Goats will really confuse them. They keep comparing White Tail hunting to "Goat' hunting? :D But we enjoy giving them a helping hand when they visit the Cowboy State to hunt.:)
 
Llama Bob said:
When they blow up on a rib or shoulder due to excess velocity - that's how.

For a few cents extra you can make the problem go away. Given the cost of even the most economical hunt, that's trivial.
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Yup.

The last goat I shot was running away from me, only about 90 yards. I hit it in the right flank with a handloaded 115 gr. Ballistic tip clocking 3,240 FPS. Ballistic tips are among the higher quality bullets, but at that range, the damage from bone impact was tremendous. The leg was held on by skin only, and I lost that entire quarter. I can't find the pictures right now, but believe me when I say it looked like a bomb went off next to the femur.

aka Speed Goats
They can run cross country faster than you can drive a pickup down a dirt road.
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Fastest land animal in North America! It's impressive to watch them slip under fences at 30 MPH, too!
 
270 win, cause that's what grandma and grandpa used on their wyoming hunts. a 110 grain cup and core bullet, if i remember the stories right.

murf
 
Everyone I have talked to who has shot them say they are easy to kill. Like anything else, choosing the right bullet for the job is a must. Too much velocity up close can be a problem for the bullet just as too little velocity too far out can be. But heck, y'all know that.
 
Olympus said:
What you don't see and will never TRULY know is how much of that bad experience was based on a poorly placed shot.
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Pay attention, I never said it didn't kill them. I'm not blaming any cartridge for lost deer. I'm not guessing about terminal performance. I know exactly what those bullets did. They failed. Any 100gr .243 bullet that does not stay together while passing through the ribcage of an 80lb doe is useless. Shot placement isn't even relevant.


Olympus said:
They guys that nay-say the 243 are traditionally middle-age to older guys who tried the gun back in the 1980s or 90s when bullet technology was not nearly as advanced as today.
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Are we making generalizations about each other now? Be careful, that's a slippery slope. I could make generalizations about 33yr olds that think they know everything because they're a gun dealer.....but I won't.

Since we're bringing age into it, I bought my .243 in 1997, when you were 14yrs old. I traded it 4yrs later. There were plenty of premium bullets back then but just as now, we shouldn't have to be using premium bullets to kill 100lb deer, or pronghorn. I went back to using what I knew worked, which was mostly handguns.


Olympus said:
And there's also people who completely give up on the caliber without trying another kind of bullet.
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How many failures are acceptable? How many failures are acceptable when you KNOW there are other options that are KNOWN to work better and more consistently? In this case, I KNEW the .243 was light for deer but lots of folks like yourself swore by it. I wanted to try it because I got a good deal on the rifle. It was a fantastic shooter. I tried it and was heartily unimpressed. If my experience conflicts with yours, I'm truly sorry but I'm not going to disregard my own experience in favor of yours. Same thing happened years later with the .250. This time, rather than giving up on it, I went deeper and found a bullet that actually works, because I like the rifle. When I comment on the .250, I will always stipulate that it begs for a premium, controlled expansion bullet. You .243 true-believers never do that. Nor do you stipulate that you always wait for a perfect broadside shot.


Olympus said:
Caliber choice aside, trigger time and practice is what makes a marksman and what takes game, not the caliber you shoot.
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Proficiency is a given and will only carry you so far when using marginal tools.
 
Llama Bob said:
When they blow up on a rib or shoulder due to excess velocity - that's how.

For a few cents extra you can make the problem go away. Given the cost of even the most economical hunt, that's trivial.
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yes a solid copper barnes bullet or woodleigh rated for hippos the answer. so these core locs are for varmints and how much velocity is left at the long ranges that posters say they take their shots?
 
salt&battery said:
yes a solid copper barnes bullet or woodleigh rated for hippos the answer. so these core locs are for varmints and how much velocity is left at the long ranges that posters say they take their shots?
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Well, a Barnes bullet is a perfectly reasonable solution if your cartridge is too fast for standard bullets. And there are no .243 or .257 bullets "rated for hippo", so you're blathering there :D

As far as long shots, the average shot isn't near as long as people think. Are you really going to pass up a shot because it's too close and outside the bullet's operating window? Most people don't, and bullet failures are the result.
 
Llama Bob said:
Well, a Barnes bullet is a perfectly reasonable solution if your cartridge is too fast for standard bullets. And there are no .243 or .257 bullets "rated for hippo", so you're blathering there :D

As far as long shots, the average shot isn't near as long as people think. Are you really going to pass up a shot because it's too close and outside the bullet's operating window? Most people don't, and bullet failures are the result.
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OK I agree with that. well put
 
stoky said:
aka Texas Heart Shot
I hope it was every bit as thrilling as you envisaged it would be. :scrutiny:
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Had no choice. Out in Cheyenne Wells, the things never seem to stop running. We chased the herd down in a truck, and I bailed when we got within 30-40 yards and took a shot. In the time it took to stop the truck, jump out (passenger) and aim, they had covered another 50+ yards.
 
CraigC said:
Pay attention, I never said it didn't kill them. I'm not blaming any cartridge for lost deer. I'm not guessing about terminal performance. I know exactly what those bullets did. They failed. Any 100gr .243 bullet that does not stay together while passing through the ribcage of an 80lb doe is useless. Shot placement isn't even relevant.



Are we making generalizations about each other now? Be careful, that's a slippery slope. I could make generalizations about 33yr olds that think they know everything because they're a gun dealer.....but I won't.

Since we're bringing age into it, I bought my .243 in 1997, when you were 14yrs old. I traded it 4yrs later. There were plenty of premium bullets back then but just as now, we shouldn't have to be using premium bullets to kill 100lb deer, or pronghorn. I went back to using what I knew worked, which was mostly handguns.



How many failures are acceptable? How many failures are acceptable when you KNOW there are other options that are KNOWN to work better and more consistently? In this case, I KNEW the .243 was light for deer but lots of folks like yourself swore by it. I wanted to try it because I got a good deal on the rifle. It was a fantastic shooter. I tried it and was heartily unimpressed. If my experience conflicts with yours, I'm truly sorry but I'm not going to disregard my own experience in favor of yours. Same thing happened years later with the .250. This time, rather than giving up on it, I went deeper and found a bullet that actually works, because I like the rifle. When I comment on the .250, I will always stipulate that it begs for a premium, controlled expansion bullet. You .243 true-believers never do that. Nor do you stipulate that you always wait for a perfect broadside shot.



Proficiency is a given and will only carry you so far when using marginal tools.
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Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. Nothing I said was directed towards you or singled you out, but the fact that you assumed so is telling.

Now I do have a HUGE issue with you making your last comment personal toward me. Frankly, I think it says a lot about your character and your need to get personal on a forum called "The High Road". Maybe you should Google that term. You want to get personal with me, do it by PM if you so feel the need. You're setting a poor example for other members here about how forum members interact with each other. Honestly, I'd prefer if you just forget all about me and ignore me. That's what I try to do with you.
 
GooseGestapo said:
The .257WbyMag is the ultimate "speed goat" gun, IMO.
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View attachment 227160
Mr. Goose says it all. Pronghorn don't take a lot of killin' but they need a lot of hittin' and the old .257 Wby Mag rules the plains where pronghorn roam because the flat trajectory makes up for a lot of error in range estimating. Attached are a couple of better than average pronghorn taken by my pal and me a while back with my old .257 Wby. with mesquite stock. It's one of the earliest Wby's, with serial no. under 600 and built on FN action. Scope is the wonderful old American made B&L 2-8X variable that was top of the line back then and still compares pretty well. Dating to the early '50's, the rig is upwards of 65 years old and I've lost count of the pronghorn it has taken in the 20+ years I've been hunting with it.. IMGP1415.JPG
 
Couple nice pronghorns there! And certainly hard to argue with a Weatherby Magnum when it comes to speed and flat trajectories.
 
It never caught on but about 14 yrs ago, I handled a sweet little Browning composite stalker in 25wssm. I think the bolt traveled like 2". The thing had a real short action and balanced perfectly. I heard those were great little shooters too
 
mshootnit said:
It never caught on but about 14 yrs ago, I handled a sweet little Browning composite stalker in 25wssm. I think the bolt traveled like 2". The thing had a real short action and balanced perfectly. I heard those were great little shooters too
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Yeah, those WSSM never really caught on in any of the calibers. Interesting design though, that's for sure.
 
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