Lightest .38 Spl?

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Buck13

Buck13

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My wife wants to learn to shoot on my revolvers, and she likes the trigger on my Model 19-3 better than the pre-model K22. She's not really delicate, but she isn't going to like bang and recoil, at first. I think she should just start with the .22LR, but if she insists, I will load some 125 grain plated bullets as light as possible. I don't usually load much below the top of the .38 standard pressure chart, so this is unfamiliar territory.

I have Xtreme TCs and maybe a few RMR HPs still hidden somewhere. Appropriate powders in hand are Trail Boss, HP-38, Universal, Titegroup, and Red Dot. Any real difference in the recoil of starting charges for these? Would you dare go below start? Or would it be better to get some lighter bullets, even if that means .355 intended for .380 or 9 mm? Tack-driving isn't the goal here. If they engage the rifling at all, it should be OK at 10 feet.
 
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Assuming the 19 fits her hand(that's more important than the velocity or weight of the bullet), 2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye with a 148 grain cast or swaged WC has been the target load for eons. Works just fine in .357 cases too. HP-38 loads are actually a bit slower. Maxing at 799 FPS with 3.1 grains. A 125 runs 115 fps faster. Mind you that's with a jacketed bullet.
"....355 intended for .380 or 9mm..." Are too small. Accuracy won't be even close to good and that alone will frustrate her.
All revolvers require a trigger job right out of the box due to frivolous law suits. So factory triggers don't matter.
And don't get mad when you find she can shoot your 19 better than you. It's normal.
 
Yep, about anything equivalent in performance to 148 grain wadcutter target loads will fill the bill. Mild recoil, not too much bang, usually very accurate.

Except for hollow base wadcutters, you can increase the powder charge a little over time as your wife gets more comfortable shooting the Model 19.

Consult your reloading manuals for appropriate powder charges for different bullet designs.
 
I've always shot 158 swc in my .38 loads and I load moderate for target. I've used Bullseye, WST, HP-38, Unique. All will make good loads for her. She is going to love the mod 19 for sure! Y'all have fun!

Mark
 
105 gr SWC seated 1/8 bellow the case mouth with a starting load for 148 WC bullet. :)
 
Buck13 said:
I'm going to use the bullets and powders listed in post #1. The question is whether going below "starting" charge is too risky.
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There is some risk that can be mitigated. The risk is getting a bullet stuck in the barrel and firing another round after it. This can at least give you a barrel full of bullets, and at worst rupture the firearm.

Some bullets are better for this. Lead is slick, coated lead is slick (Takes less pressure to get out of the barrel.), plated had more drag and so do jacketed. And of course shorter has less drag.

Some powders are better for this. Clays, WST, Competition, AA #2, etc do better in a large case where they can fall away from the primer. When developing a very light under the start charge load always test the load powder forward away from the primer. Hold the gun pointed down, slowly bring it up, then fire it. Get six rounds off checking the barrel each time and see what the Hi, Lo, & Avg is. 400 FPS is an absolute minimum (No shot below this), 500 is OK, and 600 is much better. Some powders are terrible powder forward away from the primer.

So basically a fast to very fast powder, light lead bullets are best for this, but I have light 125 and 158 Gr plated loads in the 650 to 750 range that are safe and fun to shoot.

I start folks with .22 LR, go to light .32 Mag, then light .38 Spl, etc, etc.
 
I don't load any of those combinations that you list but I would find the lowest velocity load listed by the powder manufacture or bullet manufacture for a starting load that you have. I've loaded 38 Specials pretty far below stating load suggestions but I was careful to work down the loads just a little at a time just as you should do working a load up. Plus you've got to consider the gun you are using( barrel length) etc.
 
I see no reason to go below start loads

Does your revolver have wood grips (stocks, for the purists)??

Rubber Pachmayrs make a BIG difference in comfort and perceived recoil.
 
Lead will work better than plated. I would not go lower than starting charges with plated bullets.

I have gone below starting charges with lead bullets and have never stuck a bullet. Starting charges are fairly dirty and going lower get progressively dirtier very quickly. This isn't much of a problem until you start getting unburnt kernels of powder. These kernels will get lodged under the extractor and in the cylinder crane causing functioning problems. Once you start to experience lots of unburnt powder the velocities get erratic and accuracy will suffer. I would not recommend charges less than minimum for new shooters. The biggest risk is sticking a bullet in the barrel and I would be afraid that a new shooter would not be cognizant enough to know if a bullet is stuck.
 
We see a lot of this question and for 38 Special, the "classic" wadcutter load is one of the most often recommended. Another thought; try a shooting glove (or mebbe a light leather glove to give the "feeling" of protection from recoil). Personally, and this worked well with my 12 year old daughter, explain, clearly what is going to happen when she pulls the trigger so there are no surprises (my daughter's first range session started with a Ruger Bearcat, then onto a 2" 38 with wadcutters and 3.0 gr. Bullseye).
 
Buck13 said:
I'm going to use the bullets and powders listed in post #1. The question is whether going below "starting" charge is too risky.
Click to expand...

I have NOT had good luck with making light loads with Universal and 125 grain bullets. Velocities were erratic and lots of unburned powder. Titegroup would probably work well.
 
Walkalong said:
400 FPS is an absolute minimum (No shot below this), 500 is OK, and 600 is much better. Some powders are terrible powder forward away from the primer.

So basically a fast to very fast powder, light lead bullets are best for this, but I have light 125 and 158 Gr plated loads in the 650 to 750 range that are safe and fun to shoot.
Click to expand...
Hodgden's data for 125 grain lead has Trail Boss as the lowest velocity starting load at around 650. To play it safe, maybe I won't try to get any slower than the extra friction of the plated bullet will make it. I know your mantra is that "Trail Boss doesn't like plated" but I may start with that, since I have no light lead bullets on hand, and after stocking up during 2015 and 2016 I have no desire to buy components for the foreseeable future. I made some light 240 grain plated ammo for my .43 Mag with Trail Boss several years ago and while it wasn't my favorite ammo ever, it was very light in noise and recoil and I don't remember the accuracy being impressively bad. I don't think I ever chronoed those.

Alternately, I might reduce the HP-38 start load for jacketed 10%. If it was linear, that would give me about 750 fps, but even if it drops quite a bit more than that, I would bet a dollar that it would not be down to a velocity that would scare you. I'd chrono these before she shoots them, but since my biggest concern is that she'll get fed up with the noise and flying brass from the other lanes, spending extra time on that might be a mistake. Maybe I'll have her wait in the car and read a book for half an hour just to be on the safe side.

BTW, this revolver has a fairly normal cylinder gap (IIRC a feeler gauge of 0.003" fits but not 0.004") so it will not bleed off an unusual amount of gas by that route. Both it and the K22 are 6" barrels, all of which I should have mentioned in post #1
 
I have loaded 125gr plated bullets with 3.2gr of Titegroup and found recoil to be very mild. I can easily run 100 through my airweight J frame in a session
 
Starting charges of trail Boss under a 125 is so light you'll think they're squibs. I can't imagine anyone having issues with recoil using this load. Yes, there is a difference between powders, even using starting loads. I did an eval a while back trying to get light recoiling .38s. TB was by far the winner.
 
mdi said:
We see a lot of this question and for 38 Special, the "classic" wadcutter load is one of the most often recommended. Another thought; try a shooting glove (or mebbe a light leather glove to give the "feeling" of protection from recoil). Personally, and this worked well with my 12 year old daughter, explain, clearly what is going to happen when she pulls the trigger so there are no surprises (my daughter's first range session started with a Ruger Bearcat, then onto a 2" 38 with wadcutters and 3.0 gr. Bullseye).
Click to expand...
Another plus to the HBWC load is you can turn a hollow base into a hollow point. Makes a fine light home defense load that will expand as big as a quarter and will not go through the wall to take out a neighbor next door.
 
As important as the load is her grip on the pistol. With a proper grip she should be able to comfortably handle any standard .38 Spl load.
 
I'd try red Dot and Titegroup. If you try Trail Boss with the plated 125, I would be very interested in the results. Especially if you test it powder forward.
 
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