mousegun caliber question

I have owned a Seecamp .32 for years. With my hand size it was quite painful to shoot. My knuckle got a workout to say the least. Last week I bought a LCP II in 380 and it is very easy on the hands, reasonably accurate at 30' and weight wise about equal with the Seecamp. After I have fired a few hundred rounds and am sure it will perform as expected, I will likely carry it when I have no other options due to clothing. At the price of the LCP II around $230 I figured I wasn't taking a big risk and so far I an very pleased.

when i go small i carry my 938 iswb.... but always have a stinger in pocket NAA 22 mag...

My current "mouse gun" is a single stack 9mm PPS M1. Side by side it isn't much bigger than the LCP (non Gen II). With the small magazine it is 6+1 9mm which doesn't really disappear in a pocket like a true mouse gun does. But I really like it, and carry it. Once upon a time I did have a NAA in .22Mag and I miss the crap out of that gun. If I remember right, it weighed about 7 oz loaded and that could be dropped anywhere. Since I still have a few holsters for the NAA I will likely pick up another one again for a deep concealment piece.

Every firearm choice is a trade off. I would carry the NAA if I was going for a jog. Slow has hell to reload but that wasn't my concern. Weight was. And even the Keltec P3AT I had felt heavy after 12 miles.

Perhaps the caliber question--more versus bigger--can be clarified by a familiar example. Small revolvers of J size--that's S&W's term but some other makers have comparable guns--may hold

8 .22 LR
7 .22WMR
6 .32 S&W (L or S), or .32 H&R, or .327 Federal or...
5 .38 Special
5 .357 Magnum in a few loud and rambunctious models no one likes to shoot

I think it is sensible to eliminate the .22 LR as too tepid, and the .357 Magnum as too much of a good thing. Here the technology is telling us what we can fit into the valise. If the OP question is modified to ask whether you would rather have 8 .22LR than 5 .357, the question is not incredibly far afield from the original question of five .22's versus two .45's. It is the same sort of question, only now we have comparable J frame platforms.

You may sort it out as you like, but I like the .38 Special. Evidently, I am not alone. The snubnose .38 is well established as not the first gun you or I or anyone would pick, but darned good if it has to keep out of sight. I would rather have one than either a .22 NAA or a Bond .45. I'll figure out ways to keep it out of sight. (Actually I figured out those angles a great many years ago, but that is another story.)

So then: If you had the above choices of whether you could fit more or larger cartridges into a platform of the same size, according to the above scale of how many you can cram into a J frame (for it corresponds to reality) you can pretty much figure out where you stand on the more versus bigger question.

Kendal Black

Good analogy with the J frame being the same size platform but with your choice of what cartridge you would want it chambered for. I too would go with a .38 Special for pretty much the same reasons you stated. I have found the J frame revolver to be very easy to conceal, either IWB or pocket carry, and very comfortable to have around all day.

The 45 ACP was proven man stopper well over a 100 years ago. In a life or your death situation the recoil will not be noticed.

In Canada, and I researched this in 2013 before our trip, no semi-autos allowed. Perhaps a Canadian will correct me. Handgun permits are very difficult to get approved.

Bassjam writes:

The .22 mouse gun pretty much just stays in my pocket when I'm at home or when I'm swimming at a public pool.

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Even when actually swimming? I've wondered about this. Is it a .22LR, or WMR? If you do swim with it, do the rounds fire reliably afterward (an especially-valid question if it's LR ammo)?

If I'm in an adrenaline fueled situation, the last thing I'd want to do is to start trying to thumb back small hammers, release safeties, etc. There is a lot to be said for small DA revolvers and external safety-less autos that you just pull the trigger and repeat.

For me, the Ruger LCP fits the bill for size, capacity, action, reliability, power, and price. There are those who will complain about the recoil, noise, etc., but as anybody who hunts knows, if you are in a situation where you need it, you probably won't even feel anything when it goes off or even hear it.

Deleted

MedWheeler said:

Bassjam writes:



Even when actually swimming? I've wondered about this. Is it a .22LR, or WMR? If you do swim with it, do the rounds fire reliably afterward (an especially-valid question if it's LR ammo)?

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Mine's a .22lr. And yeah, the rounds still fire. I spent a week in Florida in January and 4 full days at the beach. I fired the rounds when I got home and they all worked.

I also learned that if you sit in the surf, expect your gun to be packed, barrel and all, with sand. Standing out in the waves wasn't quite as big a deal.

Unlike most of you, it appears, I am perfectly content with mouse guns as primary and back-up carry under most routine circumstances. I swap out a variety of small 22s on my hip and in my pocket: Smith 22 revolvers; Beretta Bobcats; Smith Escort. I sometimes go big with a SIG 938-22! But, I also put a lot of rounds downrange through these guns and shoot practical practices frequently with them. And my lifestyle does not generally put me in areas of excessive danger or out late at nights when bad things are more likely to occur. During those excursions, I do amp it up a bit to a CZ RAMI or Springfield EMP 9.... But that has become a fairly rare occurrence.

I do not care to stir it up about the advisability of 22LR in a mouse gun for carry. I am content with it under my circumstances. And for me, that really all that is important.

BOARHUNTER

Boarhunter writes:

I sometimes go big with a SIG 938-22!

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I didn't know they made such a creature. Sounds like a fun gun to have.

I've been kind of wanting one of the small Browning 1911-22 pistols and, if I got one, I'd probably even carry it now and then, most likely when hiking or whatever in the woods or swamps.

I don't carry a .22 as a primary simply because I have guns barely bigger that are in bigger calibers, but, as I've said many a time before here, I'll never disparage anyone who does. The reasons would take me out of thread-topic.

"I've been kind of wanting one of the small Browning 1911-22 pistols" med wheeler said,

My wife bought the black label Browning 22... She likes it so much she also bought the same gun in 380 which is just a wee bit smaller and perfect for her... i find my self making excuses to shoot it, like it a lot.... no problems with it, except u can burn thru ammo pretty quick.. good pick and yes very nice on a hike... good luck dirt.

Glock 33 for me.

Boarhunter said:

Unlike most of you, it appears, I am perfectly content with mouse guns as primary and back-up carry under most routine circumstances. I swap out a variety of small 22s on my hip and in my pocket: Smith 22 revolvers; Beretta Bobcats; Smith Escort. I sometimes go big with a SIG 938-22! But, I also put a lot of rounds downrange through these guns and shoot practical practices frequently with them. And my lifestyle does not generally put me in areas of excessive danger or out late at nights when bad things are more likely to occur. During those excursions, I do amp it up a bit to a CZ RAMI or Springfield EMP 9.... But that has become a fairly rare occurrence.

I do not care to stir it up about the advisability of 22LR in a mouse gun for carry. I am content with it under my circumstances. And for me, that really all that is important.

BOARHUNTER

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No, I am not content to bet my life on less than 9mm +P (minimum) - I carry a LCP 380 only when I can't do better.

Skinny mall stabber required 6 rounds 9mm to stop - Shooter is firearms trainer & competitor (fired 10 rounds - 6/10 hits with Glock 19)
https://www.policeone.com/police-tr...ning-takeaways-from-the-St-Cloud-mall-attack/

Guy takes 14 rounds of 45 acp - 6 hits in supposedly fatal spots
https://www.policeone.com/police-he...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

17 center mass hits from Glock 22 with 40 S&W SXT
http://shootingthebull.net/blog/another-case-study-on-bullet-effectiveness/

As I said before, handguns are considered poor stoppers, I'd rather not bet my life on the least powerful of them.

Thank you, CDW4ME, for sharing the good and interesting information. My guess is that there are many, many more similar examples.

What the links suggest to me is that perhaps we need to be carrying Mossburg's Shockwave or Remington's equivalent....

Nonetheless, I still do not plan to change my personal carry program.

BOARHUNTER

Yea, I got another example.
Appears to take 6-7 good hits (1:15) to incapacitate this guy


Good thing the cop had more than a mousegun.

Another guy that takes 6-7 hits to stop:


No mousegun for me, nope, nope, nope

I have a P3AT and a P32. The P32 is a little more pleasant to shoot, but I don't have faith in the round and carry the 380 instead if I want to carry a very small pistol.

My guess is that there are many, many more similar examples.

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My guess is that an overwhelming majority are LE situations. Trying to find as many examples of cases in which a law-abiding citizen targeted for a crime other than specific assassination was subsequently shot, stabbed, or beaten to death after shooting their assailant would be a lot tougher. In fact, the private citizen rarely even needs to score a hit to end the encounter.

The guys that "soldier on" against cops do so because they know that the cop won't stop until the BG is dead (or otherwise disabled) or locked up, neither of which is especially appealing. The BG that targets a citizen who then fires on him (with any caliber) knows that simply breaking off gives him a far greater chance of not getting dead or locked up, so off he goes. His original target isn't likely to pursue while radio-calling for many more armed citizens to join in.

I'm also just not seeing all the reports so often mentioned here of doped-up, zombie-methhead-whatevers that keep coming, raping, murdering, and pillaging after soaking up multiple handgun rounds fired at them by private citizens.

Of course, I'm not advocating anyone carry the smallest and weakest firearms for self-defense. We all know the advice of "carry the best-performing firearm-ammo platform you can practically carry and effectively deploy and shoot" (we need not tell years-long smokers that smoking can be harmful to their health; they know it already.) What I am advocating is that the rest of us refrain from bothering or disparaging those who are clearly not clueless about it for making their own personal choices.

Have you ever shot a 45 ACP derringer? I haven't, but I have shot one in 38 spl. It was Not Fun.
If NAA, get a Black Widow or even one of the 4" variants, in .22 WMR. In a short barrel, the blast and fireball are spectacular! Even if you missed, there would be hair loss.

I have the NAA guns, but I carry a LCP when I'm out and about. I think a carry gun needs to be DA. For bush country, a SA is fine, but I would want a big caliber if I were actually in wilderness.
If I'm just working around the house, I carry the NAA or a P32.
Wife has a Berretta Tomcat .32. Easier on the hands by far.

.32 Auto is much maligned these days, and I would never consider it as a primary. But as a civilian looking to defend myself when I just can't carry something more effective? I'm perfectly comfortable with it. Lehigh Defense Extreme Cavitators have good penetration and (in testing at least) make a larger-than-caliber permanent wound track.

The thing is stopping an attacker is about bullet placement and penetration- yes, more damage is better but we're talking about a situation where for whatever reason you can't carry a 'proper' gun. If you find you don't like shooting an ultra-compact .380 the try the .32 version. You seriously won't be giving up much in effectiveness, certainly not enough to offset the ability to put the bullets where you want as quickly as possible.

My 'minimum' carry gun? I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else, but does that matter? I'm comfortable with it because while it is undeniably anemic I know I can quickly put the rounds where I want them, and that's the important thing.

MedWheeler said:

My guess is that an overwhelming majority are LE situations. Trying to find as many examples of cases in which a law-abiding citizen targeted for a crime other than specific assassination was subsequently shot, stabbed, or beaten to death after shooting their assailant would be a lot tougher. In fact, the private citizen rarely even needs to score a hit to end the encounter.

The guys that "soldier on" against cops do so because they know that the cop won't stop until the BG is dead (or otherwise disabled) or locked up, neither of which is especially appealing. The BG that targets a citizen who then fires on him (with any caliber) knows that simply breaking off gives him a far greater chance of not getting dead or locked up, so off he goes. His original target isn't likely to pursue while radio-calling for many more armed citizens to join in.

I'm also just not seeing all the reports so often mentioned here of doped-up, zombie-methhead-whatevers that keep coming, raping, murdering, and pillaging after soaking up multiple handgun rounds fired at them by private citizens.

Of course, I'm not advocating anyone carry the smallest and weakest firearms for self-defense. We all know the advice of "carry the best-performing firearm-ammo platform you can practically carry and effectively deploy and shoot" (we need not tell years-long smokers that smoking can be harmful to their health; they know it already.) What I am advocating is that the rest of us refrain from bothering or disparaging those who are clearly not clueless about it for making their own personal choices.

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You have a disclaimer, noted.
These attackers are not dissuaded by the revolver and revolver guy aint a cop:
If video doesn't display (I've tried Firefox and Chrome browsers) www.liveleak.com 1503430831 Indian Man Gets Attacked by 4 people with bats.