Marlin .45-70 Trapper

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DPris

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Have a sample in all-weather trim here.
Skinner sights & 16.5 barrel, big looper, stainless.
Have not shot it yet, but it appears to be built pretty much sorta kinda like they used to.

Very good stock to metal fit.
Smooth action.
Very clean machining.

And it has NO canted front sight on it anywhere.
Honest, I looked all over it & couldn't find one.

Be interesting to see how it shoots.
I'm almost liking it so far. :)
Denis
 
I actually almost asked my Marlin contact who DID make it. :)
Can't do photos.
Denis
 
Marlin CSBL.jpeg

I am very fired up for the .357 version. I REALLY hope these are good! CSBL??


Thanks for the update,

Matt
 
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Pictures shouldn't be an issue as what you describe sounds like the .357 version in the catalog above, but with a bigger hole in the barrel! Look forward to a first range report.
 
Looks mostly like the suppressed configuration in the above .357 photos.
No muzzle threads, and different sights (Skinner), obviously round bolt.
Hardwood stock with weather-resistant finish.

Discussing with Marlin project manager.
Overall, the core issues we look for are well done.
None of the usual suspects present.
No gaps between steel & stock.
Clean machining.
Sights not canted.
Mag not crooked.
Rubber recoil pad fairly well mated to the stock.

I do strongly dislike the lever edges.
Sharp enough to scrape skin.
If I were to buy it, I'd blow another $75-$100 in shop time having my gunsmith de-horn the lever, trigger, hammer, and rear sight plug.
That's just me.

Still looking forward to shooting it, hopefully this week.
Denis
 
Looks mostly like the suppressed configuration in the above .357 photos.
No muzzle threads, and different sights (Skinner), obviously round bolt.
Hardwood stock with weather-resistant finish.

Discussing with Marlin project manager.
Overall, the core issues we look for are well done.
None of the usual suspects present.
No gaps between steel & stock.
Clean machining.
Sights not canted.
Mag not crooked.
Rubber recoil pad fairly well mated to the stock.

I do strongly dislike the lever edges.
Sharp enough to scrape skin.
If I were to buy it, I'd blow another $75-$100 in shop time having my gunsmith de-horn the lever, trigger, hammer, and rear sight plug.
That's just me.

Still looking forward to shooting it, hopefully this week.
Denis
What would you say the odds are that you got a “hand selected” version of this rifle so that everything was correct? I certainly wouldn’t send out a firearm for a review that wasn’t up to par.
 
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Considering what they've sent me in the past, I'd say the odds are very good that this is not a hand-built specially-selected gun.

You should've seen a .357 sample just after The Move.
Clunker from Junkerville, I rejected it & canceled the review.

The guy I deal with on these is a Marlin product manager, not the usual press rep.
We've talked at great length about the company & he freely admits there are major problems.

I get the sense that it's a very difficult process to get Marlin moving in the right direction, but he's genuinely doing his best as far as he can.
I don't think he'd toss a ringer at me.

And I'm still beating him up on those sharp lever edges, so the gun ain't perfect. :)
Denis
 
Considering what they've sent me in the past, I'd say the odds are very good that this is not a hand-built specially-selected gun.

You should've seen a .357 sample just after The Move.
Clunker from Junkerville, I rejected it & canceled the review.

The guy I deal with on these is a Marlin product manager, not the usual press rep.
We've talked at great length about the company & he freely admits there are major problems.

I get the sense that it's a very difficult process to get Marlin moving in the right direction, but he's genuinely doing his best as far as he can.
I don't think he'd toss a ringer at me.

And I'm still beating him up on those sharp lever edges, so the gun ain't perfect. :)
Denis
If you are to be believed, and I’d bet good money you are, then I accept it’s not a hand selected model. It sounds like we can believe the product manager as being honest as well.

My question(s) are, where does the problem lie? Is it a machine issue? A personnel issue? A management issue? I mean no offense if the manager is your friend. And I certainly cannot lay all the blame at his feet. I don’t know how long he’s been at his post. But Denis, it’s been TEN YEARS!!! I recognize that retooling doesn’t take place over night. Neither does hiring new personnel. But again, it’s been ten years. How long does it take to get their acts together? It’s not that all are junk. Certainly that’s not the case. So if they do produce quality pieces, why do you (or the product manager) believe there are so many out there that have such problems?
 
I would send it back. Front sight is supposed to be tilted 10 degrees to the right. Thats to make sure you can see your target clearly because you have to shoot to the right a foot. Otherwise it would be obscured by that pesky post on the end of the barrel.
 
At least it seems they are moving in the right direction, based off the first lever you received and the current one. The Marlin brand had a lot to offer at least to my tastes, and I was really sad to see them sell, hopefully they can come back to the quality they were known for.

I've seen other manufacturers cutting some corners lately on fit an finish, so it's not just Marlin. My recent purchase of a Ruger GP100 .22lr had some sharp edges on the trigger guard that were hard to miss, and sharp enough to cut a person if one was to have some softer skin run along it. And it's first outing either one or two cylinders I was getting light strikes.
 
BB,
The Marlin guy I deal with is somebody I've come to consider a friend over the years. We talk at SHOT, we call back & forth, we email.
We actually communicate on personal channels about non-gun subjects, too, something that doesn't happen much in the industry.

I'm not all that easy to BS on a continuing level, and I get the sense he's an honest guy doing the best he can to make a difference as a mid-level manager in a very convoluted system.

He's not in a position to stomp his foot & make everything good in a day, so more patience is needed.

Marlin was going downhill before the buy & before the move.
Equipment was old & needed babysitting & nursing by operators who were, in some cases, third-gen machinists working for Marlin on the same machinery.

The move was not simple.
Those employees who knew how to nurse the machines along & what the specs were that were pretty much handed down from previous generations were not transitioned to the new plant.

The primary reason for that, in my understanding, was that the guns were going to be moved into new equipment & away from the older machinery.
The old employees who knew the old machines were essentially obsoleted.

To shorten the story, it's been a long process to bring Marlin back because of several factors.
Technical drawings for each levergun model had to be developed, which took time. There were none at the old plant, workers just "knew" what specs & processes to use on the old machines.

Those had to be integrated into new machinery & new processes.
Manufacturing space had to be created at Ilion.
The new machinery had to be acquired, and it was not cheap.

There was a shortage of engineers.
The Freedom Group combine was doing other things in other areas with other products concurrently, and engineers were sometimes shuffled away from the Marlin division to work elsewhere.

Workers had to be hired and trained.

Processes had to be tweaked.
Workers had to be tweaked.

Decisions had to be made on which models to concentrate on first.
Those got the attention.

Resources were not infinite.
Marlin is not a stand-alone company in the sense that it used to be, so Marlin execs don't always have the final say.
Marlin DOES have its own manufacturing space and its own "Marlin" employees.
Employees are not switched around from Remington one day & Marlin the next.
Marlin workers consider themselves to be Marlin employees, not Remington employees.

All of this took time. And money.
Marlin had to compete with other Freedom Group brands for attention internally.

Initially, after the move, the people assigned to Marlin's upper management were also a part of the problem, but those people are now gone.

QC remains an occasional issue, but efforts have been made to address it.

As far as my friend there goes, he's aware, he's working on it, I'm seeing far better workmanship on this sample (aside from the lever edges), and I doubt he'd pull a con-job gun on me. :)
Denis
 
BB,
The Marlin guy I deal with is somebody I've come to consider a friend over the years. We talk at SHOT, we call back & forth, we email.
We actually communicate on personal channels about non-gun subjects, too, something that doesn't happen much in the industry.

I'm not all that easy to BS on a continuing level, and I get the sense he's an honest guy doing the best he can to make a difference as a mid-level manager in a very convoluted system.

He's not in a position to stomp his foot & make everything good in a day, so more patience is needed.

Marlin was going downhill before the buy & before the move.
Equipment was old & needed babysitting & nursing by operators who were, in some cases, third-gen machinists working for Marlin on the same machinery.

The move was not simple.
Those employees who knew how to nurse the machines along & what the specs were that were pretty much handed down from previous generations were not transitioned to the new plant.

The primary reason for that, in my understanding, was that the guns were going to be moved into new equipment & away from the older machinery.
The old employees who knew the old machines were essentially obsoleted.

To shorten the story, it's been a long process to bring Marlin back because of several factors.
Technical drawings for each levergun model had to be developed, which took time. There were none at the old plant, workers just "knew" what specs & processes to use on the old machines.

Those had to be integrated into new machinery & new processes.
Manufacturing space had to be created at Ilion.
The new machinery had to be acquired, and it was not cheap.

There was a shortage of engineers.
The Freedom Group combine was doing other things in other areas with other products concurrently, and engineers were sometimes shuffled away from the Marlin division to work elsewhere.

Workers had to be hired and trained.

Processes had to be tweaked.
Workers had to be tweaked.

Decisions had to be made on which models to concentrate on first.
Those got the attention.

Resources were not infinite.
Marlin is not a stand-alone company in the sense that it used to be, so Marlin execs don't always have the final say.
Marlin DOES have its own manufacturing space and its own "Marlin" employees.
Employees are not switched around from Remington one day & Marlin the next.
Marlin workers consider themselves to be Marlin employees, not Remington employees.

All of this took time. And money.
Marlin had to compete with other Freedom Group brands for attention internally.

Initially, after the move, the people assigned to Marlin's upper management were also a part of the problem, but those people are now gone.

QC remains an occasional issue, but efforts have been made to address it.

As far as my friend there goes, he's aware, he's working on it, I'm seeing far better workmanship on this sample (aside from the lever edges), and I doubt he'd pull a con-job gun on me. :)
Denis
I hope you understand that my intention is not to argue with you Denis. You OBVIOUSLY have insider information. I think your explanation about Freedom Group is probably the best. I have seen this happen with the industry that I am involved in (Professional Bass Fishing). A “Group” buys a brand and that brand goes to crap. Some eventually go under. It’s one thing I hate about “Groups”. But it is the way things go sometimes. I really hope Marlin turns this around. I own 4 marlins. All JM’s. And they are fantastic firearms. It would be nice to see Marlin return to their former glory.

Look forward to your range report.
 
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BB,
I don't take you as being argumentative at all.
It's hard to understand why Marlin went so drastically downhill & why it's taking them so long to work back up. :)
Denis
 
BB,
I don't take you as being argumentative at all.
It's hard to understand why Marlin went so drastically downhill & why it's taking them so long to work back up. :)
Denis
Denis I’m curious, what ammunition are you going to use for your range report? Factory? Or handloads?
 
Factory.
It'll be three or four types & weights.
I think I've got two brands of slow "cowboy" lead & a couple jacketed loads on the shelves.

I won't be keeping this one, and I don't usually take the time to work up handloads for guns I don't retain.
It's counterproductive in terms of profit & loss. :)
Denis
 
Thanks for the inside information.
It always baffled me how workers could turn out lemons, or at lease poor examples for so long, but most workers probably aren't gun aficionados like most of us here. I hope the improvement continues, I have been wanting a 357 lever for a long time.
 
Just watch out after your first few shots. My 1895GBL looked great until I rant a few patches through it after 14 rounds.
26165723_1695120350539073_8290470111979513916_n.jpg
25994957_1695120327205742_9048442265837584974_n.jpg
I bought it and the 336 at the same time so my younger daughter and I could hunt together with like guns. She and I both wanted lever guns.
 
That's quite a bit of copper fouling for 14 rounds. It would be interesting to see some bore scope pictures.
 
Shot this one today.
Four commercial jacketed loads, decided not to bother with the lead caboy load, since I envision this as a not-CAS-gun.

Three were 300s, the other was a 405.
All premium hunting loads, and in that short barrel it was easy to tell when the gun went off.

I'm not a Skinner sight fan, don't do well with apertures anymore, and I had to work to get under three inches for best 3-shot 100-yard groups.
I know lotsa people like 'em, which is fine, I'd just have to replace the rear if I were keeping the gun.
Front white-line post is great.

Gun cycled well, good pad, decent trigger PULL.
Trigger itself stinks.
Drew blood first shot when recoil drove the sharp tip into my finger & a corner punctured skin.
Yes- I do know how to shoot a thumper. :)
The trigger on this gun, and the lever edges, are simply unacceptable in an otherwise nice package.

If I didn't already have my trusty old Guide Gun, I'd keep this & spend the money to finish what Marlin didn't.
Denis
 
I hear yah DPris, it's as if they are so darn close. The trigger is easily fixed with a Wild West version, but figure another $75. Same for the Lever, get a big loop from Wild West, but that's another $$$.

Figured I'd share a picture of my Trapper, the one on top is a 2006 Trapper IIRC, .357 mag. It's got the Happy Trigger and big loop lever from Wild West installed.

20140803_145758.jpg
 
That's the thing- sooooo close.
If they'd just finish the gun. :)

I've gone the WWG route before, could do it again. Good products.
If I didn't already have the Guide Gun, I would.

I'm a died-in-the-wool sucker for a 16-inch levergun, a big loop, and the .45-70 caliber.
Put 'em all together, and it's a great package.

I suspect most of us would be happy to spend an additional $10 on the buy-in up front to have Marlin just round off the corners on the lever while they're making it, and they for damn sure coulda specced a rounded trigger tip when they ordered the MIM molds for it to begin with.

I could genuinely like this gun, IN a finished version. :)
Denis
 
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