butches, BTech, Shooterschoice?

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Axis II

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Well I think I might have some copper build up and carbon in my varmint/target rifle. It has about 500 rounds through it and only ever used Hopps #9 but I'm noticing accuracy kind of dumping. I wont touch sweets with a 10ft pole cause I'm scared of the "do not leave in longer than 15min" disclaimer so I'm in search of a better cleaner. I'm pretty sure I have asked this before and tried the search function but all the post I see are 2015 and older. I was just told by a friend whos a rifle nut that my Hornady varmint bullets might be causing some copper issues and I need to get it out.

I can get butches and shooters choice local but looking for recommendations.
 
Out of those, I like Bore Tech Eliminator the best. It gets copper out really well, and doesn't smell terrible. Butches bore shine works well, but the smell makes it a no go in my house. Shooter's Choice didn't seem to get copper out very well for me.

I now use Wipe-out Patch-out pretty much exclusively as it seems to clean about as well as Bore Tech, but doesn't have a strong smell and I can buy it locally cheaper.
 
Gtscotty said:
Out of those, I like Bore Tech Eliminator the best. It gets copper out really well, and doesn't smell terrible. Butches bore shine works well, but the smell makes it a no go in my house. Shooter's Choice didn't seem to get copper out very well for me.

I now use Wipe-out Patch-out pretty much exclusively as it seems to clean about as well as Bore Tech, but doesn't have a strong smell and I can buy it locally cheaper.
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does butches clean the copper and powder pretty well? I clean in the garage or outside so smell doesn't really matter. :) My buddy has a jug of sweets but I really don't want to use it. Ive been reading butches isn't what it used to be.
 
A solid +1 in the Gtscotty camp; Elimator cleans/ removes copper and lead very quickly with zero odor. A tad more expensive but well worth the investment for thoroughness and time saved. I never use the conventional, smelly stuff anymore. You do have to avoid contact with a wood stock as same will leave a dull spot that will require a rub with oil to return to the original luster (but never permanent damage).
 
One more vote for the Bore Tech Eliminator. I had been through pretty much everything since 1963 and had settled on Montana Extreme for copper removal. Then I tried the Bore Tech and got copper out for 20 minutes...
 
Wipe out works pretty well, although I find you need to follow up with hoppes or krill otherwise the bore gets kind of sticky when you patch it out again.

For really coppered up bores I use sweets on my target rifles and haven't noticed any bore damage when following the directions. I leave it in for no longer than 10 minutes.
 
I've been using Eliminator for quite awhile now. It is the best copper remover that I have tried. I'm afraid of Sweets too, and IMO Eliminator works just as well, if not better.

Boretech came out with a new copper removing product called Cu+2. I bought some, and I can't tell any difference between it and Eliminator.
 
Well I asked my best friend if he wanted to take a ride to the store with me to buy some boretech and he says how about you save your money because I have a bottle of sweets and butches bore shine and also let me barrow a 5.56 chamber brush. He uses the sweets for his military rifles such as nagants, sks, ak 47, m44, etc. He said bore mop it and let sit for like 4-5min and then patch it out until clean and then clean the rifle with butches really well. I figure I will only need to do this every once in awhile so ill give his stuff a try and then order some boretech when I need it. I can only find boretech online but I'm pretty sure I seen it at a local shop 30min away but they have a habit of saying yeah, we carry it and I drive there to find out they don't so I figured take the trip anyways.

I think 15min is a little long for sweets so we figured a few minutes and patch it out and use the butches to clean the sweets out. He said he will do this routine several time over a month or so, so the sweets isn't in the bore that long. say clean it tonight with both and then clean it a week or two from now for another 4-5 min. Once I get out towards that particular store ill see if they have bore tech if not ill have to find some stuff on midway to offset the shipping.
 
Ive forgotten sweets in my rifle bores a few times, its a huge pain to clean out, but ive never seen any lasting issues from it.
Generally my process for a complete copper removal, is to clean powder fouling, then swab sweets in let sit for 5-10 mins and remove.
I then saturate a brush with sweets and scrub the bore for any given number of strokes and let it sit another 5 mins, swab that out and repeat till the copper fouling is gone.
I only do this maybe once a year, and only on guns that get shot a lot, or guns that copper foul badly.
 
All three of those are good products. I still have some Shooters Choice, Butches. and Eliminator. (If that is the B-Tech you mean.)
Laphroaig said:
I'm afraid of Sweets too,
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Ammonia based products are not the best choice IMHO either. Even though SC and Butches have small amounts in them. I have never used the strong ammonia content copper removers like Sweets.

If you like something more natural without harsh chemicals, Gunzilla is good stuff. Still have some of it too. When I clean pistol barrels that is what I use.
 
G.E. Lee said:
One more vote for the Bore Tech Eliminator. I had been through pretty much everything since 1963 and had settled on Montana Extreme for copper removal. Then I tried the Bore Tech and got copper out for 20 minutes...
Click to expand...

Had that experience when I switched to Bore-Tech. I had been leaving behind a lot of copper and the Bore-Tech kept pulling up more. Likewise on the 20 minutes. Learned a lesson there.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
Well I think I might have some copper build up and carbon in my varmint/target rifle. It has about 500 rounds through it and only ever used Hopps #9 but I'm noticing accuracy kind of dumping. I wont touch sweets with a 10ft pole cause I'm scared of the "do not leave in longer than 15min" disclaimer so I'm in search of a better cleaner. I'm pretty sure I have asked this before and tried the search function but all the post I see are 2015 and older. I was just told by a friend whos a rifle nut that my Hornady varmint bullets might be causing some copper issues and I need to get it out.

I can get butches and shooters choice local but looking for recommendations.
Click to expand...


Just got some Kroil and am experimenting with it. Some mix one part Kroil to four parts of their regularly used bore cleaner. At any rate, it has multiple uses around the house.
 
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I figure give this butches a shot seeing how I cleaned with Hopps one time and then something else and hopps didn't get anything out of the bore cause the other stuffs patches were dirty. If the butches does good after my hopps cleaning a few months ago ill throw a little sweets in there for the copper. I figure its free now so why not use it and when I run out of this small bottle of hopps ill order some b tech eliminator.
 
I have used Sweet's for bore cleaning and it seems to be the 800 pound gorilla in the forest. It is pretty harsh and something that I would not use for regular cleaning schedule. A lot of folks advise against ammonia cleaners for understandable reasons but in my experience the ammonia based bore cleaners are the most effective and economical in the long run if used solely for the purpose bore cleaning.
 
My poor centerfires have endured Sweets since forever and no harm has come to them insofar as what I can detect visibly. Accuracy is consistent with pre-fouling levels after removing build-up and I am satisfied that it works extremely well.

Shooters Choice is what accompanied me to the range and has done a fine job of copper removal for the past 10 years or so since I first gave it a go, to the point I no longer feel Sweets is a necessity except when working on “new” used rifles or those brought to me for cleaning by friends. I finish with dry patching then CLP.

Bore Shine is all I use in my rimfires and that too has been a long term relationship with my dozen plus rifles.

A few years back I switched a few pistols to Frog Lube Paste exclusively; no other bore or exterior solvents/cleaners/lubricants and found it extremely impressive. Cleaning was generally reduced to 2 dry patches to push out gunk, leaving a spotless shiny finish. Most would easily shoot 1,000 rounds between re-application which saved a ton of time, another big plus in my book. I meant to do some testing on rifles as well but don’t have enough evidence at this point to declare it a true hit there.
 
Question: I have read many accounts of shooters moving from product to product in the ammonia base family of cleaners and settling on X, Y or Z. Has anyone used B-Tech Eliminator and returned to the ammonia based products as being superior? I have used all of the older, smelly and scrub-scrub-scrub stuff in my shooting life; I tried Elimator and was simply amazed at the speed and thoroughness of the orodhct (plus zero smell). My guess is that the old gun cleaning chemical technology is around because the B-Tech products have not been tried yet; I just cannot see someone using Elimator and then liking the results of the ammonia base products better - that is how good it performs. For you ammonia base people, try Elimator on your copper or leaded bore just once (do yourself a favor). I would be taken aback if anyone found the old stuff to be superior. That was my experience hands down - good shooting.
 
So has anyone else heard the allegation that Sweets can react with the chemicals in other powder solvents to make bad things happen, like pitting of barrels? I remember Shooters Choice being mentioned. I heard or read that in the past, which is why I quit using Sweets. I must say that I never saw a problem when I did commonly use it. Then again, I don't have access to a borescope.

So many things that we do in shooting and handloading are hard to prove or verify. This is be one of those, and I didn't want to take a chance.
 
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Well this is scaring the crap out of me! I read some Google stuff on sweets where its ruined barrels and some say it doesn't and some say don't mix with butches whatsoever cause it will have a negative reaction and pit the barrel. I'm thinking about just giving the butches a try cause i'm not a fan of Hopps #9 anymore and wait until i can find Boretec eliminator and scratch the sweets.

Do you guys think a savage axis HB 223rem that's been cleaned with nothing but hopps #9 and fired about 400-500 rounds of V max bullets would be badly copper fouled it would need sweets?
 
Laphroaig said:
Boretech came out with a new copper removing product called Cu+2
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Yes, this one. I use both Boretech products, one is for carbon, one is for copper.

Even though these products are good, it still takes a lot of repetitive passes with nylon bore brush and patches to get that copper out.

And if you don't have a borescope find someone who does. Until you look at the interior of your barrel you'll never know if it's clean
 
That would depend on a lot of things. How rough is the bore? How hot did you get the barrel when those 400-500 rounds were fired? Probably some more variables. Don't be afraid of the Sweets. Just use it as directed.

As far as bore solvents go, they all work. If you clean a bore with your favorite solvent and follow it with another solvent you will usually get some more fouling out. The newer Hoppes does seem to be weaker than the original formula.
 
i used the old benchrest formula of 2 parts shooters choice to 1 part kroil for years. then i got lazy and just did shooters choice, then one day i couldn't find shooters choice in stock so i got some butches.

i think if i cared a whole lot, i would go back to shooters choice and kroil. but butches gets it done well enough at the moment for me. as long as i see blue/green after the first round and none on the next round, i figure it's working.
 
I've used Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out foaming bore cleaner for about six years now and it's the only product I'll use. I've used a bunch of other products over the years including Sweets, Hoppe"s, Barnes and others, but nothing cleans out a barrel like Wipe-Out. I haven't passed a nasty metal brush though a bore in years. I wrap a clean patch around a nylon brush and run it through the barrel after I've let the foam sit for a while. Typcically I'll foam up the bore, let it sit for 30 minutes, foam it up again and let it sit for a couple of hours then wipe out the barrel with patches until they come out clean.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...ss-foaming-bore-cleaning-solvent-5-oz-aerosol
 
Hoppies makes a copper solvent. Works quite well.
Benchrest I believe it is called. Too lazy at the moment to hike out to the shop.
 
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Nature Boy said:
it still takes a lot of repetitive passes with nylon bore brush and patches to get that copper out.
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Amen!

Nature Boy said:
Until you look at the interior of your barrel you'll never know if it's clean
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I just keep it up until the dry patch turns a light "Robin egg blue" and doesn't change color any from the previous cycle. I'd say I average about 5 or 6 cycles before I quit. Eliminator sucks some copper out of the jag, so I don't think you could ever get a white patch when using it.
 
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