I thought you were required to carry a WBY to be a Yuppie
Has the 7mm Rem Mag fallen out of favor or is it just my imagination?
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The .270 Win is easy to buy loaded ammo for. Choice of 130 grain or 150 grain. If you're hunting woods, take the 150, or take a different caliber rifle. If you're hunting where shots are over 200 yards, take the 130s. If you're shopping for 30-06 ammo, you may be there a while, trying to decide which of the 8 or so bullet weights and which of the 4-5 brands/types of ammo to buy.
A couple of years ago, I couldn't find any decent .308 Win ammo for my buddy in any Maine stores, much less .22LR. Glad that era of hoarding is over!!!
A couple of years ago, I couldn't find any decent .308 Win ammo for my buddy in any Maine stores, much less .22LR. Glad that era of hoarding is over!!!
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
At one time, the 7Mag held the record for 1,000-yard group size.
Back 50 or more years ago, a magazine article spoke of a wheelchair guy in Virginia. He and two or three buddies would set up where they looked out over a river valley. They had a navy-surplus range-finder. He'd use a 7Mag and get clean kills at 700 or 800 yards. One of his buddies would jeep the five miles or so around to the deer and haul it back. One of those "A good time was had by all" deals.
Back 50 or more years ago, a magazine article spoke of a wheelchair guy in Virginia. He and two or three buddies would set up where they looked out over a river valley. They had a navy-surplus range-finder. He'd use a 7Mag and get clean kills at 700 or 800 yards. One of his buddies would jeep the five miles or so around to the deer and haul it back. One of those "A good time was had by all" deals.
incredible difficulty getting into hunting for a lot of Americans, and not really a money saver, or part of culture or heritage anymore. Sad but true. The sports are moving from hunting to long range target shooting, but both have no comparison to informal short range high volume target shooting, so calibers other than those type are getting fewer sales, less interest from the manufacturers, higher ammo costs are driving people away from the used market, bringing prices down. It will be around as long as rifles are legal, but since no one is shooting 400 rounds of 7mag 30 feet into a pile of illegally dumped appliances and tv's it won't have the same appeal as 223 or 7.62x51/39/54/63.
Garandimal
member
And if you instead had a mind to utilize the modern LD bullets available?
That plain ole 22" sporter rifle chambered in .270 WIN - loaded with factory Hornady Precision Hunter high-tech 145 gr. ELD-X (BC=0.536) (SD=0.270) ammo with their reasonable 2900 fps at the muzzle?
...would stretch that 1,000 Lb-Ft of Energy into your designated "bean-field banquet" to 740 yards... and only drop 10' (-120") with a 200 yd. zero getting there.
So, if one had a sweet shootin' .270 WIN that they shot well but wanted to be braggin'bout a half-mile kill-shot...?
...they'd be out of luck.
GR
There were LOTS of very serious proponents of the 7 RM, as well as the other various 7mm mags going back long before the 7mm RM...... The gun rags were full of 7mm RM articles for more than 3 decades....
It seems to me that there are just as many irrational fanatics that despise a cartridge for no apparent rational reason whatsoever as there are that like them....
It really amuses me when people today assume that everyone prior to the internet was completely in the dark.... There is almost nothing in the world of cartridge design that is completely fresh and hasn't already been done before, often long ago... The internet is great at marketing and promoting fads, whether they be gun related or fashion related or whatever... Many cartridges come and go, very few stick around for generations.. Shooters prior to the internet weren't nearly as clueless as you make them out to be..... They were very innovative, probably more so in the past than they are today..
barrel burner phobia is probably a factor as well (Im one, but its getting irrational these days), especially in the used market. While a 7mag does not kick too hard, it is loud. Around here it used to be $2 per round 15 years ago, last time I looked, when the popular rounds were 10-30 cents per round. Cant imagine its any cheaper now.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
From Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide To Handloading", I'd guess that the 1920s/1930s was the era of greatest innovation in wildcat cartridges. He listed dozens of them.
One from the 1930s which much later was picked up by Remington was Nebraska gunsmith Jerry Gebby's "Varminter". You know it as the .22-250. My uncle built one in 1947 on a bring-back 98 action; Weaver K-10 and a Bishop stock. Half-MOA shooter.
One from the 1930s which much later was picked up by Remington was Nebraska gunsmith Jerry Gebby's "Varminter". You know it as the .22-250. My uncle built one in 1947 on a bring-back 98 action; Weaver K-10 and a Bishop stock. Half-MOA shooter.
Out here the the cheapest hunting ammo for all the major calibers is about the same. Cheap 06 and .270 is 20-25, cheap 7mm and 300 is 24-30.
.243s and .308 start around 22, .30-30s are 20 at the cheapest.
Even the STW is running bout 35 bucks a box at one local store....
Creedmoors start at 24 also.....
627PCFan
Member
I pick my calibers based on BC, first rifle was a 7mmrem for hunting, then a 6.5x55 for me donkin around with long range shooting. My 7 does everything I want it to across all bullet weights and every hunting task so far. Maybe I struck gold but my 24" barrel holds honest velocities with load manuals. I did get a 30 cal eventually, but it was a PTR91 and vary may well be the only 30 cal I ever own. There is nothing I cant get done with my 7 and if I do want to get the same thing done a different way I have my muzzleloader.
ExAgoradzo
Member
I didn’t read every comment word for word, but I haven’t seen anyone say, “It’s the American way to have as many choices as possible schtick”... that is of course true, and it is one of the four all round cartridges that many have here identified. I personally would like to have one, and I recognize that I am a cartridge hog. Just in case ammo goes away, I want to cover as many bases as possible. As has been noted, I have my .30-06 and now I have my dads .270 Win, so...not really a need.
Greg
Greg
Location, Location, Location is another answer not already given. Aside from our exotic ranches, our lil deer & hogs can be knocked off with a infinite number of smaller cartridges.
WestKentucky
Member
I have always hated 7mag. It’s a super boomer with no place in the whitetail woods. Why so many people thought it a good idea to buy elk and moose rifles for whitetail in inconceivable. Overkill is an understatement
.308 Norma
Member
I have always hated the .243. It's a pipsqueak with no place in the elk woods. Why so many people thought it a good idea to buy a whitetail rifle for elk is inconceivable. Wounder is an understatement.
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Mosin Bubba
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100 grain 243 is the most ideal whitetail / mule deer bullet yet made IMO - at least for the hunting I do out in open country. But it has absolutely no business as an elk cartridge.
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WestKentucky
Member
I see we are from the same mindset. A person simply needs to pick the right tool for the job. You dont haul lumber with a moped, nor do you drive nails to hang pictures with a sledgehammer.
In our next act I propose we tackle the overkill and underperformance of the .410 and 10 ga shotguns.
Ive found both statements to be true, to a degree, and very much reliant on the shooter/hunter.
A hunter who shoots either well, and can place his shots exactly where they need to go will do fine with either (tho again the bigger round gives some added leeway imo).
The hunter who routinely shoots the front 1/2, 1/3, of the animal is much better off with the bigger round.
I rarely blatantly recommend the .243 for new hunters unless VERY well coached (it used to be my go to recommendation). Then if the ranges are short, and the animals are small like what we generally have here, the .223 might be a better choice due to the ability to practice a lot. Its still a great round, but requires more consideration in application and shot presentation that something larger.
My wife uses a .243 and loves it.
Shes never fired more than 1 round at any game animal shes ever sighted on, and ive never had to follow a blood trail from one of her shots (carrying the crap shes shot has sucked a few times tho), including an 800+ pound cow.
Varminterror
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The pro-life barrel buyer market trend does make sense, however. The current firearm buying trend is NOT geared towards hunting, but rather towards recreational shooting. So while a 7 rem mag hunter from the last century could let a box of ammo last a decade’s worth of happy freezers, a recreational shooter today will make more use of their range queens. So barrel life does matter a lot more to recreational plinkers than it might to a ONLY a hunter. The 7RM is aggressively rude to barrels, a plinker who spends a box per weekend 2-3wknds per month will burn out a 7RM in less than a year and a half, and have it grouping unacceptably poorly within 3-4yrs. Something with a little smaller appetite for powder will keep a recreational plinker happy a lot longer, and if killing game isn’t on the agenda, the difference in horsepower doesn’t matter.
.308 Norma
Member
Yes sir, LoonWulf. I don't really hate the .243, I was only trying to make a point. The fact is, I think the .243 is just about as perfect for the mule deer around here as a cartridge can get. And my wife killed a lot of them with the .243 she used to have. It would probably be great for whitetail too, if we had any in this part of Idaho.
I completely agree with that too. I used to argue (jokingly) with a buddy I worked with over his use of a 25-06 as an elk rifle. While I will never believe that a 24 or 25 caliber rifle of any flavor is a good choice for a novice elk hunter, the guy I used to jokingly argue with was an expert who had hunted all sorts of big game here, in Alaska, and even Africa. A 25-06, or maybe even a .243 was adequate for elk in his hands. Even so, he used his .338 Win Mag for Alaska big game, and his .416 Rem Mag for Africa big game.
Been there, done that. I hope your wife can cook what she shoots as well as my wife can though. Chicken fried venison steak with biscuits and gravy helps make up for a long drag.
I do most of the cooking, but when she DOES cook its always delicious. She also cleans my pigs, just cause shes a lot faster at it then i am (and complains the whole time about the huge holes in them, which is HILARIOUS), so i cant really say a whole lot.Been there, done that. I hope your wife can cook what she shoots as well as my wife can though. Chicken fried venison steak with biscuits and gravy helps make up for a long drag.
Llama Bob
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it's interesting how different the gun requirements are for eastern deer hunting vs. western elk. Eastern deer is a very unconstrained problem. The deer go down easy, the shots are short, often times hunting is from a stand or blind, and frankly just about any legal centerfire can be made to work reasonably well. Rifle choice is first and foremost a fashion statement.
Elk are the exact opposite - big animals that go down hard with potentially long shots and lots of hunting pressure, and in terrain where you'd like to be carrying a mountain weight rifle. Given a choice you'd like something with a .375+ bore, 0.3 or higher SD, close to 100% weight retention, a muzzle velocity of 3000ft/s and and a G1 BC of 0.5+ in a 7lb rifle. Problem is you can't have that - about the closest you could get would be a .378 Weatherby shoting 300gr Accubonds in a 7lb rifle, and if you did that you'd have a rifle with 4x the recoil of a .30-06. So everything is a set of carefully chosen compromises. The problem is very much over-constrained.
Of all the compromises available, 160-175gr premium bullets in a 7mag is one of the best - probably THE best off the shelf.
Elk are the exact opposite - big animals that go down hard with potentially long shots and lots of hunting pressure, and in terrain where you'd like to be carrying a mountain weight rifle. Given a choice you'd like something with a .375+ bore, 0.3 or higher SD, close to 100% weight retention, a muzzle velocity of 3000ft/s and and a G1 BC of 0.5+ in a 7lb rifle. Problem is you can't have that - about the closest you could get would be a .378 Weatherby shoting 300gr Accubonds in a 7lb rifle, and if you did that you'd have a rifle with 4x the recoil of a .30-06. So everything is a set of carefully chosen compromises. The problem is very much over-constrained.
Of all the compromises available, 160-175gr premium bullets in a 7mag is one of the best - probably THE best off the shelf.
During that ammo shortage, the only large caliber ammo I found on the shelves was .270 when everything else was sold out. If you have 30-06 brass, you can make .270 brass. The same with 7.62 NATO brass, you can make .243, .260 and 7mm08.
kwg
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