Swedish Mauser Model 1896 Question

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orpington

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I bought this one at a local auction recently because it had all matching numbers and I had wanted one. I am not a collector of these, nor do I intend to be. It is, of course, in 6.5 x 55 and was manufactured in 1915.

Attached are two photographs, one being of the entire rifle, the second is of the end of the barrel. My question is, does the barrel normally decrease in diameter immediately from the front sight, with an abrupt decrease in diameter immediately forward of this front sight, or is this an after market modification? What purpose would it have served originally or as modified? My guess is that the purpose had something to do with a bayonet.

The crown of the muzzle appears to be correctly beveled. 20181127_133038.jpg 20181127_133054.jpg
 
On all my 96 Sweeds that portion of the barrel in front of the sight is threaded... for a blank firing device I believe. Is there a thread protector on there that can be unscrewed from the end of the barrel? I put thread protectors on my Sweeds back in the day.
 
I don't believe so. Could it be that it was threaded and later turned to remove the threads?

Not at home right now, so difficult to assess.
 
My guess is that not all M96's were threaded. It looks too thick to have had threads removed.

I haven't seen any posts from Doug Bowser lately, he would surely know the answer.

By the way, that's a M96 i'm shooting in my avatar. Mine is threaded.
 
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By the way, how safe are these to shoot? I tend to use mild loads. It seems that there is more than anecdotal evidence of spontaneous failure with these, although the cause could still be due to double loaded cases, etc.
 
Accuracy is a great reason to reload, but not the main reason, unless you are independently wealthy. Economics has to be the main reason to reload. I don't see how anyone can afford to shoot more than a couple dozen rounds annually unless they reload.
 
Not all Mod. 96 Swedes had threaded muzzles. I've had three of them with two being all original, matching numbers guns. None has that feature and I recall back in the late 1980's-mid 1990's when lots of those were being imported that many ( or most?) of them had non-threaded muzzles. I just sold one of my all original Swedes and still have a bunch of pix of it here on the computer including what that end of it looks like IMG_2672.JPG IMG_2659.JPG I also have one of the Model 96 Swedes that were sporterized by Kimber in the mid -1990's. Been handloading that one since 1995 but never with real hot loads. Kimber also rebarreled some back then to higher pressure cartridges like .308 & .243 & .22-250 but although I haven't heard of any blow-ups they did develop what was called "lug set-back" which led to excessive headspace problems. With normal handloads in the original 6.5x55 chambering Mod. 96 Swedes have a very good reputation as safe and accurate shooters.
 
Yours looks just like mine, so it must have been manufactured that way. What is the reason for a muzzle to not be threaded and have a diameter as depicted--e.g., stepped down forward of the front sight?
 
Weird. The the pre '68 1894 imports had a pressed extension added so that barrel length would exceed 18". Is it possible that the 1896 had an extension pressed on at some point to allow it to be threaded for the blank firing device and then was never threaded?

Is the smaller diameter section integral or pressed on like the 94s?
 
By the way, how safe are these to shoot? I tend to use mild loads. It seems that there is more than anecdotal evidence of spontaneous failure with these, although the cause could still be due to double loaded cases, etc.

You really shouldn't shoot these old Sweeds! Pack it up and send it my way and I will make sure no one else ever shoots it! :)

The Sweeds are my FAVORITES of my mil surplus rifles and all of mine have been outstanding shooters. I own 4. I shoot all 4 frequently with mid powered handloads. All 4 of mine are extremely accurate... The first 96 I purchased back in the 90's I took out to shoot for the first time and I obliterated a GatorAid bottle at about 75 yards off hand... VERY FIRST SHOT I PUT THROUGH THE RIFLE!!! absolutely no sighting in. I fell in love with the sweeds right then and there! After a really good cleaning and thorough inspection paying special attention to the receiver looking for any kind of cracks I have always felt very safe behind my Sweeds.

The disc on the stock is the barrel grade and the bore diameter from when the armory last evaluated the rifle. If you would like to post a picture we would be happy to decode it for you.

As for 96's not having threaded barrels... those were probably manufactured in California!

I believe the blank firing device was a cage to catch the splinters from practice rounds... that had wooden bullets. Maybe only the training rifles were threaded? I bought all of mine at roughly the same time so they might have been all training rifles? It would be interesting to know!
 
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Your 96 has the original profile, and as you guessed, it fits the issue bayonet. There is also a front sight hood which you are missing which is a great aid in accurate shooting in varied light. The threaded muzzles sometimes encountered were a later arsenal modification to fire "wooden bullet blanks". There was also a flash hider which could be installed. This modification is most often encountered on M38 and M96/38 and I believe is ubiquitous on the M41 sniper variants.

Barring any serious flaws or damage, your rifle should be safe to fire with any factory ammo or any loads as listed by Hodgen, Lyman, Hornady, Speer. I would avoid Nosler or Vihtavouri max data in this caliber as they run a little hot. Loads in this caliber are generally worked with a lower pressure limit than modern cartridges. A favorite of mine is 42 gr IMR 4350 pushing a 140 BTHP.
 
I'd always heard ( if that's worth anything) that the threaded muzzles weren't a standard feature because there wasn't enough demand to justify it because only a certain percentage of Mod. 96's were to be designated as being able to be set up for those practice rounds with the wooden bullets. I'm obviously another Swedish Mauser fan and IIRC every one I've ever seen is a first class shooter. Amongst Mil-Surp rifles they have a reputation as some of the most accurate. Sweden also took very good care of them, rebuilding any that needed it and they didn't sell any worn out, beat up ones that I recall when they were being imported.
 
By the way, how safe are these to shoot? I tend to use mild loads. It seems that there is more than anecdotal evidence of spontaneous failure with these, although the cause could still be due to double loaded cases, etc.

Just keep them within factory pressures. The load was 43,000 psia maximum. The steels are appropriate for this level. Use good quality brass and always wear your shooting glasses. These actions are not appropriate for 308 Win, 270 Win, 30-06, etc, any higher pressure cartridge. The most likely thing to happen is receiver seat seat back and then a blown case head. These actions have little to no gas venting protection, so a blown case head will blow the receiver ring. Don't know what happened in this set of pictures, but my guess, excessive cartridge case protrusion leading to a blown case head. It looks like a rifle converted to a 308 Win, that's my best guess.

DFE1w2A.jpg

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drNkR4X.jpg

Whenever you deal with these early smokeless rifles you are living with 1900 era steels. Which are awful. The same steels today, the same compositions, are much stronger because those old steels had a lot of non oxidizing elements left in the ladle, were made in an era when process controls were pretty much, taste, touch, smell, visual.

Anyone think this is high tech?

asdZ42Z.jpg

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These vacuum tubes were forty years in the future from 1900.
 
upload_2018-11-27_20-6-29.png
They are generally superb shooters. This is my 140 grain load posted above with the Hornady HPBT. This is on the 300m INT target, NRA prone with GI "Garand" sling and an unmodified M96. I wasn't holding any wind, just shooting a baseline group. The 9s out the left are most certainly light wind gusts.

Edit... bored today so I looked up dimensions. That's a 100mm 10 ring at 300m, or slightly over 1MOA. These rifles can shoot!
 
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20181128_034941.jpg
Here is an image of the disc. I believed that lack of anything else in the Torped Overslag means sighted in at 100 metres, the indentation over one 3 means the bore condition is acceptable at a 3, but not as good as if marked 1 or 2, and the other 3 marked means bore is .653 cm. I have no idea what the other plate means
 
1) Not all Swedish Mauser barrels were threaded and I have some of both. The threading is for a wooden bullet firing adapter for training. The adapter broke up the wooden bullets and fitted on the threaded barrel. The Swedes used wooden bullets in brass cartridges (Samco used to sell them and I see their old stock popping up here and there on websites)
th?id=OIP.jKtg8WWLLY-pZNY2J2KqCAHaED&w=300&h=164&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.5&pid=1.jpg

2) The recessed turning at the end of 93, 94, 95, and 96 Mausers and some m98's was to allow the front sight mount to slide over it and be soldered into place. As Mauser barrels are not timed, one of the issues is that the sights have to be aligned after the barrel is installed and headspaced to the bolt.

3) The Swede 94 carbine, not the Swede 96, had a barrel length about 17.5 inches from my recollection and at that time, to be imported, it had to be greater than 18 inches like shotguns or violate pre -68 federal gun laws on importation. Thus new barrels (sometimes U.S. sourced) were installed or old barrels were sometimes threaded to permanently install a flash hider device to lengthen the barrel to the required length. Some have sleeves permanently attached to bring the length up the the requirement. Anyhow, the restriction was lifted and the original barrel lengths could then be imported again.

Sarco used to sell the flash hider which can also be used to protect and hide the threads when shooting. There is also a protective cap that you can acquire from the parts stores if still available. I have one on my 96 Swede just because and because I have no intention of using a wooden bullet device on my rifle.

Some pretty pictures and info on Swede Mausers.
http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/rifles_se/rifles_se.htm
https://chuckhawks.com/swedish_mauser.htm
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/

Slamfire pretty much covered it on reloading cautions for it. I also wonder if the kaboom rifle that is in Slamfire's picture is a Kimber conversion. Kimber ground off the charger bridge on the rear of the receivers to allow traditional scope mounting. At the time, Kimber was coming out of bankruptcy and these rifles do not represent typical Kimber quality and as mentioned above, the pressures of modern cartridges are really not advisable in old Mausers for longevity. The most common effect is lug setback that gets worse until head separations of cartridges occur but old brittle receivers have contributed to kabooms, now and again, like the low number 03 Springfields. If you have one, check it with headspace gages on a regular basis and check your brass. Do not try getting a longer bolt to set headspace as when lug setback occurs, essentially that receiver should be retired as any repairs would cost more than the rifle is worth if it could be done at all.

The Mauser design at the time around the turn of the century, including lug recesses in the receiver, is simple case hardened carbon steel. The lug recesses have a relatively thin hard layer of case hardening over a soft interior to yield a durable receiver. Firing more than the expected pressure essentially deforms the softer material underneath the hardened surface so that the receiver begins a process of lengthening headspace until it is unserviceable. These receivers were designed for relatively lower pressure rounds plus a certain margin of safety. The Swedes also had capacious throats for their long bullets in their issued barrels that reduced pressure as well.

As Slamfire said, metallurgy and costs were issues. Nickel steel existed at the time but militaries are cost conscious and conservative and kept the simpler techniques longer perhaps than they should have. Ironically, the Brits after adapting the Lee Enfield to smokeless Cordite, found it necessary to adopt the better nickel steel for the SMLE to withstand the effects of Cordite.
 
Any idea as to what type of wood the stock is? It states that early production, they were walnut. WWI production was beech, elm and mahogany. I am guessing mine is beech.

THANK YOU for the excellent link!
 
The Mauser design at the time around the turn of the century, including lug recesses in the receiver, is simple case hardened carbon steel. The lug recesses have a relatively thin hard layer of case hardening over a soft interior to yield a durable receiver. Firing more than the expected pressure essentially deforms the softer material underneath the hardened surface so that the receiver begins a process of lengthening headspace until it is unserviceable. These receivers were designed for relatively lower pressure rounds plus a certain margin of safety. The Swedes also had capacious throats for their long bullets in their issued barrels that reduced pressure as well.

As Slamfire said, metallurgy and costs were issues. Nickel steel existed at the time but militaries are cost conscious and conservative and kept the simpler techniques longer perhaps than they should have. Ironically, the Brits after adapting the Lee Enfield to smokeless Cordite, found it necessary to adopt the better nickel steel for the SMLE to withstand the effects of Cordite.

Not taking issue with your conclusions regarding the need to stay within SAAMI pressures for the Swede, but the Swedish Mausers were in fact made with very high quality, high Nickel steel. Swedish ore, particularly those in the northern basins, contains quantities of V, Mn, Cu, Zn, Rb, Sr, Mo, Ag, Cd, Sb, Ba, Ce, Tl, Pb, B, Th, Ni and U in the right combination to make a very consistent steel. And the Swedes were making quite good steel by the latter half of the 19th Century. Though likely more for domestic economic and political reasons than metallurgical, the Swedes mandated use of Swedish steel in the manufacture of the first run of Swedish Mausers at Obendorf. Essentially, very high Iron content within Swedish Iron ore makes removal of impurities less costly and time consuming, especially the removal phosphates which are highly effective oxidizers and greatly contribute to brittleness in steel. So, the Swedish Mauser receiver is essentially a very high quality steel, not soft, but malleable to the degree desired in high quality steel. However, the less effective than more modern processes that provide heat treatment to deliver a hardened outer layer is where the need to adhere to prescribed operating pressures comes from. As you very correctly describe, repeated exposure to pressures above SAAMI Max Pressure (51,000 psi), will overwhelm the surface heat treatment and lead to excessive headspace via lug recess lengthening and surface cracking.

For the reading enjoyment of metallurgical geeks and its decidedly somnambulatory excellence, a treatise on Swedish Iron ores:

https://epic.awi.de/38900/1/Landergren_FULLTEXT01.pdf
 

Thanks for the citation.

I am acquainted with Swedish steel and iron ore, if you do a THR search, as I investigated it before I rebuilt some old Swede mausers a few years back. As far as the iron ore goes, Swedish iron ore is certainly high quality and was specified by British Steel makers in the latter part of the 1800's. Even an old U.S. Krag military contract for barrels apparently specified Swedish steel during trials and early production. At Oberndorf, there is still a Swede building on the Mauser grounds. The problem for us today is that the Swedes did not consciously alloy their steels for maximum strength etc. At the turn of the century, it was extremely difficult for material science at the time to trace and separate minor impurities during the steel making process that we now do as a matter of settled science. This does not apply to the WWII era Husquavarna receivers where the metallurgy including alloys, heat treatment, and removal/trace elements had improved.

Thus, the steel can be inconsistent based on whatever the sample of ore happened to be turned into steel in that batch. Trace elements also complicate heat treatment of the steel as nickel steel is a bit more forgiving but carbon steel has a narrower range. Unknown alloys make heat treatment more challenging as to the correct range resulting in different strengths. Heat treatment of carbon steel is a difficult subject as steel possesses different qualities at different carbon levels. For receivers, you want a steel soft enough to machine but one that will toughen up when heat treated. However, if you heat treat it improperly you can either change the steel crystals (burn it with a change to a coarse granular structure) or you can actually make it so hard that it is brittle but very strong (some of the old low number Springfields are hard enough to break drill bits unless annealed). A receiver is more like a hammer--it must survive repeated impacts and deform rather than shatter as a safety mechanism (Mauser intended this from his designs). Thus, the tough exterior and soft malleable cores that represent Mausers. However, just like the low number 1903's, some Mauser receivers were improperly heat treated and can either be brittle or burnt. The burnt is easier to detect but the brittle can slip through. Remember that machining of these was done prior to heat treatment to preserve the machine tools. So the easiest way to detect brittleness often results in the destruction of the receiver--for example hammer blows, drilling and tapping, changing barrels in a vise, etc. The worst of course is from kabooms.

I ended up being educated on the subject (by Slamfire and an online Swedish Mauser buff going by the Dutchman who get deeply into old metallurgy on milsurps) because I used a phrase on Swedish Mausers that has been often quoted that Swede receivers were as hard as tool steel (last I checked it was still of wikipedia) but it has been cited over and over again in print. It is, of course, laughable. Later, I gained quite a bit of knowledge simply working on the beasties. In spec Swedish receivers are actually pretty soft and can be twisted fairly easily upon barrel installation or removal. Kimber apparently ruined a fair amount of these by doing whatever it took to remove the old military surplus barrels. A few years ago, a bunch of these receivers turned up on the online auction sites.

A lot of the old gunsmithing manuals (prior to the 1950's) have extensive details on heat treatment and its pitfalls because a lot of them actually fabricated repair parts on the spot. The apprentices in the British and German gun industries probably have a similar knowledge base.
 
With regards to the stock on mine, the reference, above, states that early stocks were walnut, and by WWI, the stocks were elm, beech, or mahogany. What does it appear my stock is? It seems that, as described, stocks in 1915 (WWI) were not walnut. This does not appear to be mahogany. I am guessing this to be beech, but I have no idea what elm looks like.

Also, what does the rectangular plate next to the disc signify?
 
View attachment 813744
Here is an image of the disc. I believed that lack of anything else in the Torped Overslag means sighted in at 100 metres, the indentation over one 3 means the bore condition is acceptable at a 3, but not as good as if marked 1 or 2, and the other 3 marked means bore is .653 cm. I have no idea what the other plate means
The other plate gives sight corrections for those that are using the later spitzer round.
 
With regards to the stock on mine, the reference, above, states that early stocks were walnut, and by WWI, the stocks were elm, beech, or mahogany. What does it appear my stock is? It seems that, as described, stocks in 1915 (WWI) were not walnut. This does not appear to be mahogany. I am guessing this to be beech, but I have no idea what elm looks like.

Also, what does the rectangular plate next to the disc signify?

Look up a Yugoslavian m48 Mauser stock image using google or bing. Here is one example.
medium_8292161-wts-2-m48-yugo-mausers.jpg

Elm is a coarse open grain hardwood as you can see. It does take stain well.

Here is a post on stock finishes and the swede barrel and correction plate on the rifle butt for the newer issued ammo
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=11370

Ironically, from what I remember without checking my reference sources, the early walnut stocks source wood was from America.

One of the issues with military stocks is that the stocks can darken from storage in grease, deterioration of the stock finish, from absorption of cleaning oils, and from grimy dirt embedded into the finish. There is also a common perception that Walnut stocks will always show a reddish color or a very dark, almost ebony color. In truth, walnut does range significantly from a blondish color with a more open grain (have an old WWI era 1917 rifle stock that exhibits this) or a very dark chocolate like color with very tight grain. During wartime, military arsenals used whatever they could get their hands on.

From your pictures, I cannot see the wood grain but I suspect it is not elm as it tends to darken toward a brownish color instead of reddish as seen in the m48 pix. I'm decently sure that the below picture is a m96 in an elm stock
wm_8126024.jpg

If it has a line and pepper type grain, then it is a beech stock which can give the reddish color in your pix with certain stains.

It could also be maple which was used for a few stocks by the Swedes
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/maple.html

This picture from Liberty Tree Collectors shows the wide variance in these stocks
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=432&idcategory=42
DSC08866.jpg
 
20181129_183625.jpg 20181129_183612.jpg Attached are photographs of the stock. What wood do you think it is? I am leaning towards beech because it doesn't appear to be elm or mahogany. It also strongly looks like a lighter walnut, except attached sites to this thread seem to suggest walnut was available only earlier in production and this one dates from 1915. All numbers match.
 
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