Helpless Venezuelans lament losing guns, right to stand up to government

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Aim1

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Welp, learning their lesson now. Why our 2nd Amendment is so important.



https://www.foxnews.com/world/venezuelans-regret-gun-prohibition-we-could-have-defended-ourselves




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Helpless Venezuelans lament losing guns, right to stand up to government

By Hollie McKay | Fox News 12/14/18

CUCUTA, Venezuela/Colombia border – As Venezuela continues to crumble under the socialist dictatorship of President Nicolas Maduro, some are expressing words of warning – and resentment – against a six-year-old gun control bill that stripped citizens of their weapons.

“Guns would have served as a vital pillar to remaining a free people, or at least able to put up a fight,” Javier Vanegas, 28, a Venezuelan teacher of English now exiled in Ecuador, told Fox News. “The government security forces, at the beginning of this debacle, knew they had no real opposition to their force. Once things were this bad, it was a clear declaration of war against an unarmed population.”
 
That country has vast oil reserves. Frankly I'm surprised we did not liberate the Venezuelan people through armed intervention. Now that Vladimir Vladimirovich extended his hand it maybe too late.
 
Ultimately all governments rest on popular consent, even dictatorships. However, unless enough people decide to risk their lives with overthrowing that government, then tyranny will continue--until it doesn't.

As the Founders noted, the usual form of most governments in the world and history is despotism, oligarchy/aristocracy, and monarchy. Democracies in history lasted until the people of that country lost their virtue (started thinking about what was in it for them and fell for the old something for nothing trick).
 
“Venezuela shows the deadly peril when citizens are deprived of the means of resisting the depredations of a criminal government,” said David Kopel, a policy analyst, and research director at the Independence Institute and adjunct professor of Advanced Constitutional Law at Denver University. “The Venezuelan rulers – like their Cuban masters – apparently viewed citizen possession of arms as a potential danger to a permanent communist monopoly of power.”
Imagine that, communists that want a monopoly on power and use of force.

I guess they believed that they were "Good Communists".

A Constitutional Republic provides a bumpy road for navigating through life, but it beats any other form of government.

Much of the crime has been attributed by analysts to government-backed gangs – referred to in Spanish as “collectivos” – who were deliberately put in place by the government.

“They were set up by the government to act as proxies and exert community control. They're the guys on the motorcycles in the poor neighborhoods, who killed any protesters,”said Vanessa Neumann ... “The gun reform policy of the government was about social control. As the citizenry got more desperate and hungry and angry with the political situation, they did not want them to be able to defend themselves. It was not about security; it was about a monopoly on violence and social control.”

So while Venezuelan citizens were stripped of their legal recourse to bear arms, the “collectivos” – established by Chavez when came to power – were legally locked and loaded. Deemed crucial to the survival of the socialist dictatorship, the “collectivos” function to brutally subjugate opposition groups, while saving some face as they aren’t officially government forces, critics contend.


Eduardo Espinel, 35 ... said the law had proliferated the violence by allowing the collectivos to freely and legally shoot and kill.

Many contend the gun ban has in some ways hurt police and law enforcement. ... There was a 14 percent increase in police murders in 2016. And more than 80 percent of assailants subsequently stole the officer’s gun, according to Insight Crime.

Some experts contend many of the weapons and ammunition used by gangsters were once in the hands of government forces, and obtained either through theft or purchase from corrupt individuals.

Hmm ... Extreme leftists Communists who use violence against those who speak out against them and who hate freedom of speech? That sounds familiar.

We have that type here in the US too.

They wave anarcho-communist flags. They dress in all black, they wear masks to hide their identity and they assault people that they don't agree with.

Gun control has always been an attempt to have a monopoly on violence and to control the populace.

I've never been able to understand why people would want the government to have that sort of power.
 
Can't happen here. Right?

I have debated die hard anti gun people enough and they will always believe that no it can't happen here. They believe that western civilization is advanced and democracy thrives and there is little to no need to protect yourself especially from your own government.
 
A Constitutional Republic provides a bumpy road for navigating through life, but it beats any other form of government.
This is a bit off-topic for THR, but I have to say it, to set the record straight:

Winston Churchill said that “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” And he was a conservative.

A republic is not inconsistent with democracy. Comparing these two things is like comparing apples and oranges. Democracy is the underlying philosophy, and republican forms are the means by which it is put into practice (in the United States). You could have a monarchy that was democratic, and conversely you could have a republic that was dictatorial.
 
A continuation of the murderous march of Socialism. People wonder why the NRA has been on a kick against Socialism lately, and here is why. Socialist tyrants always disarm the people.
Half of Europe has socialist governments, and they are not "tyrants."

Socialism is an economic system, and is independent of civil liberties (or the lack thereof).

The NRA's "kick" against socialism is a distraction from its core mission, is designed to pander to the extreme political Right, and is one reason why I'm thinking of resigning my Life Membership.
 
Although the bill was sold to the population as a hardline effort to improve security, and sharply reduce crime, many now point to Venezuela as a case study for how gun prohibition can actually produce the opposite effect.
Well duh.......
 
The NRA's "kick" against socialism is a distraction from its core mission, is designed to pander to the extreme political Right, and is one reason why I'm thinking of resigning my Life Membership.
That's ridiculous. While they do support more republicans than Democrats, they support pro gun Democrats. But hey, there are more pro gun republicans than pro gun Democrats, so go figure.

Socialism doesn't fit with freedom. Never has, never will. May start out that way at first, but it never ends up that way. When the government has too much power it always ends up with the people losing. Always.
 
I have debated die hard anti gun people enough and they will always believe that no it can't happen here. They believe that western civilization is advanced and democracy thrives and there is little to no need to protect yourself especially from your own government.

Check it out here is a reply from a known anti-gun person on another forum debating this very article. Like I said you won't reach them because the world is unicorns and rainbows to them.

quote"Plenty of guns were in Columbia and the killing went on for many decades there - from all ends.

Nope, guns won't solve the problems there. I had a Uber driver here in Florida for a long ride last week who came from there. What a mess.

There is no one to blame it on. It's typical super-corruption. Not just Hugo, but the current guy.

Sorry, guns won't help a bit. Honest government would"
 
One of my best friends is from Venezuela. He gained US citizenship several years ago, but his family is still there. He could not be more upset at what has happened to his childhood home and is working actively to get his family the hell outta there.

I’ll echo others-strange that everyone sees the emperor has no clothes there, but apparently has a beautiful “wardrobe” when he visits places like chicago...
 
Half of Europe has socialist governments, and they are not "tyrants."

Socialism is an economic system, and is independent of civil liberties (or the lack thereof).

The NRA's "kick" against socialism is a distraction from its core mission, is designed to pander to the extreme political Right, and is one reason why I'm thinking of resigning my Life Membership.
Yeah, keep on believing that. Socialism has been responsible for the deaths of millions, and always leads to a curtailment of freedom. It is a wicked, evil political system straight from the pits of hell. Anytime that someone dangles the "free education", "free healthcare", "free (fill in the blanks)" in order to garner support can only do so by stealing from the productive.

Socialism is institutionalized theft.
 
... there were only around eight gun stores in the entire country. And the process of obtaining a legal permit to own and carry was plagued by long wait lines, high costs and bribery ...

Replace Venezuela with New York City or San Francisco, no difference.

Wish some people understood government bans of private gun ownership is a "canary" warning of government going bad.
 
That's ridiculous.

Gotta disagree. Many us want the NRA to stay focused on the core 2A and firearms education role and stop using our money to make forays into social and political issues outside of the 2A, hunting, firearms ownership. Sure we expect them to promote politicians that claim to oppose firearms owner restrictions regardless of party affiliation, but it is their other social/political involvement we want them reined back on.

As to Venezuela, the people were promised that things would be taken away from organizations and people for the greater good and that's what they got (along with the bad all that brings).
 
A republic and a democracy are two different things.

The United States of America is a republic, not a democracy.
Half of Europe has socialist governments, and they are not "tyrants."

Socialism is an economic system, and is independent of civil liberties (or the lack thereof).

Really? :)

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

The NRA's "kick" against socialism is a distraction from its core mission, is designed to pander to the extreme political Right, and is one reason why I'm thinking of resigning my Life Membership.
If you're a socialist then you probably should.

Can we get back to Venezuela?
 
Which is in the quote I said was ridiculous. That said, you can remove "designed to" and only say they pander to the extreme right and it is still ridiculous.
 
Ultimately all governments rest on popular consent, even dictatorships. However, unless enough people decide to risk their lives with overthrowing that government, then tyranny will continue--until it doesn't.

As the Founders noted, the usual form of most governments in the world and history is despotism, oligarchy/aristocracy, and monarchy. Democracies in history lasted until the people of that country lost their virtue (started thinking about what was in it for them and fell for the old something for nothing trick).

Sadly, with a country like that where all the guns are taken, the only way for change to happen is if the Praetorian Guard decides the dictator has gone too far, and if you've read Edward Gibbon, you know that doesn't always go so well, either.
 
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