Debate on accessories/tactics for a new gun owner

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It sounds like you should do whatever makes you happy. If its basically just having fun with guns the sky is the limit, and all of us have done some strange things that didn't make sense just because we wanted to.

Your talk of lights and tactics, I just assumed you were planning to use them in a defensive roll.
 
He was a marine

That explains it. And how little he knows about his own job. Section 10 of MARADMIN memo details lights used on Marine weapons. Denoted as the Surefire M27, note 4 allows use of other similar lights. There are also dozens of lights in the NSN database that the military can order from suppliers. Awful lot of support for lights considering they have no "tactical use" according to your friend.

https://www.marines.mil/News/Messag...cs-modular-attachments-and-modifications-for/
 
Well the idea is that I may have too, if I keep my full size smith and Wesson at home with a flashlight mounted on it and it’s dark I may need to use the light as a means identify a possible threat(s). The light in particular isn’t so much for “fun” I only meant building guns and adding accessories in a general statement would be for fun not that every accessory or gun set-up will Be for fun.
 
That explains it. And how little he knows about his own job. Section 10 of MARADMIN memo details lights used on Marine weapons. Denoted as the Surefire M27, note 4 allows use of other similar lights. There are also dozens of lights in the NSN database that the military can order from suppliers. Awful lot of support for lights considering they have no "tactical use" according to your friend.

https://www.marines.mil/News/Messag...cs-modular-attachments-and-modifications-for/

im Going to be saving that For later reference haha
 
It sounds like you should do whatever makes you happy. If its basically just having fun with guns the sky is the limit, and all of us have done some strange things that didn't make sense just because we wanted to.

Your talk of lights and tactics, I just assumed you were planning to use them in a defensive roll.
I would hope I would never have to use light accessories and trained tactics to hurt someone, however that doesn’t remove the possibility that there may come a day I will need to use my weapon and light attachments. With that being said, my friend ( ex marine as previously stated ) says they do more harm to the operators than the assailant. This is the real
Reason for discussion and thoughts on weapon accessories and tactics, the light being a focal point but not the only point. I hope that clears up any confusion.
 
When a Marine fights its typically not a surprise. They are looking for dangerous people, and they typically find them. If the wrong person gets killed, their wellbeing is not jeopardized. It is strictly kill or be killed. They also have a team, and have an idea of what they will encounter. If in doubt, they can default to shoot. I think using a visible light for them is more dangerous, not because of giving away position, but for alerting of their presence.

You and I will typically be defending ourselves from an unknown threat. If we kill the wrong person, we could easily be financially and socially ruined (sometimes even if we do kill the right person too). Pretty sure that marine overseas isn't going to accidentally shoot his child, but there is a good possibility of you or I doing just that if we can't identify the target.

Military tactics and civilian tactics are typically very different. Have you ever gone out of your way to avoid a sketchy dude on the street? That is a tactic, just like tossing a grenade through a door.
 
It does seem overused, and it does apply to things. I'd be thrilled if we could find a better word though.

"Purposefully" works...

purposefully
[ˈpərpəsfəlē]
ADVERB
  1. in a way that shows determination or resolve.
    "Rachael takes the lead, striding purposefully towards the door"
  2. with a useful purpose.
    "how is it possible to share information effectively and purposefully with project partners?"
  3. intentionally and deliberately.
    "we purposefully avoided addressing the problem" ·
    [more]
 
"Purposefully" works...

purposefully
[ˈpərpəsfəlē]
ADVERB
  1. in a way that shows determination or resolve.
    "Rachael takes the lead, striding purposefully towards the door"
  2. with a useful purpose.
    "how is it possible to share information effectively and purposefully with project partners?"
  3. intentionally and deliberately.
    "we purposefully avoided addressing the problem" ·
    [more]
Purposefully what? It's hard to exchange an adjective with an adverb.
 
When a Marine fights its typically not a surprise. They are looking for dangerous people, and they typically find them. If the wrong person gets killed, their wellbeing is not jeopardized. It is strictly kill or be killed. They also have a team, and have an idea of what they will encounter. If in doubt, they can default to shoot. I think using a visible light for them is more dangerous, not because of giving away position, but for alerting of their presence.

You and I will typically be defending ourselves from an unknown threat. If we kill the wrong person, we could easily be financially and socially ruined (sometimes even if we do kill the right person too). Pretty sure that marine overseas isn't going to accidentally shoot his child, but there is a good possibility of you or I doing just that if we can't identify the target.

Military tactics and civilian tactics are typically very different. Have you ever gone out of your way to avoid a sketchy dude on the street? That is a tactic, just like tossing a grenade through a door.
I completely agree with this.
 
95% of the folks that talk "light discipline" and come down against WMLs are Vietnam vets. Modern doctrine seems to have changed a lot since those days, and of course NV gear either didn't exist or was in its infancy back then. I don't think those ideas really make sense for a civilian who is looking to set up a firearm for recreating, varmint control or home defense. WML is a true game changer if you need to shoot a varmint in your yard or on your land. I learned that the hard way trying to dispatch a racoon that was in a kerfuffle with a neighbor's dog. It's vastly easier to have a light on the firearm than to try to hold it and the gun especially with a long gun. Besides, be it a racoon or a bear wild animals will not be shooting back so I think "breaking light discipline" is outweighed by the need to illuminate your target.

In a home defense situation I also don't think light discipline is a primary concern. Especially compared to illuminating your target enough for a positive ID. Note that a WML does not replace a hand held light, and you don't want to muzzle someone that could be a burglar but might be your teenage son sneaking in from a party. The light probably won't be what gives away your position to a home invader. Of course having a WML on the firearm doesn't require you to use it but it gives you options.

On a long gun I like to have a WML and a RDS. I always set my carbines and other long guns the same as far as that's possible. I find a VFG to be handy on a carbine to help index my hand onto the switch for the WML, and it helps control the gun. A sling is to a long gun what a holster is to a handgun and is nearly mandatory IMO.

Lights are great. Half the time it's dark outdoors and it's dark indoors 100% of the time if the lights aren't on.
 
and you don't want to muzzle someone that could be a burglar but might be your teenage son sneaking in from a party.

Didn't stop my dad from doing just that. I was coming home form work at 2 AM, and had a Walkman on with Metallica blasting. (Dating myself here!!) My Dad called my name several times, and when I didn't answer, he grabbed the Python and his D cell Maglite. I turned to go up the stairs, (split level) and was blinded by the light, but I could still see the muzzle. Never wore the Walkman into the house again.
 
All of my home defense and woods defense guns have lights mounted on them. I also have a separate flashlight by the door as well. If I hear something/someone in my house, then I'm grabbing a gun and don't care about giving someone something to shoot at.

If I hear something/someone in the yard, then I walk out with a flashlight to check it out.

I live alone and in small 1400 sq ft home. If someone is in my house unannounced, they are a threat.

If someone is in your house- they are an innocent until you are convinced otherwise.

Threat? Only a small fraction of the population would be (and most of those aren't violent outlaws), so be vigilent, confident, and don't assume. You do not want to harm someone unnecessarily.
 
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I have an ex military friend that gets very upset when I don’t do what HE WANTS me to do on MY gun, he says my Benelli super nova 12 gauge is a piece of garbage gun, and a tactical light in a pistol is useless.
The fact that he was in the military means almost nothing when it comes to knowledge of weapons and tactics. It depends what he did and how much good training he had.

His argument is “it’s not tactical and will get you KILLED!” Bc thugs that break into your house can/will shoot at your weapon light making you an easy target. Thoughts?
If you're in a situation where it's dark and you think there's someone who may shoot at you, you shouldn't be just walking around with your weapon light turned on like some idiot in a Hollywood movie. You should seek out some good low light training, (after you've had a good bit of training in the fundamentals). Your friend's statement leads me to question whether he received much low light tactics training.
 
When a Marine fights its typically not a surprise. They are looking for dangerous people, and they typically find them. If the wrong person gets killed, their wellbeing is not jeopardized. It is strictly kill or be killed. They also have a team, and have an idea of what they will encounter. If in doubt, they can default to shoot. I think using a visible light for them is more dangerous, not because of giving away position, but for alerting of their presence.

You and I will typically be defending ourselves from an unknown threat. If we kill the wrong person, we could easily be financially and socially ruined (sometimes even if we do kill the right person too). Pretty sure that marine overseas isn't going to accidentally shoot his child, but there is a good possibility of you or I doing just that if we can't identify the target.

Military tactics and civilian tactics are typically very different. Have you ever gone out of your way to avoid a sketchy dude on the street? That is a tactic, just like tossing a grenade through a door.
What he said.
If you're actively seeking someone out (hunter) then you would want as little risk as possible of tipping off the hunted. You're hunting, you know what you're looking for. Being in a stranger's house presenting illumination to announce your presence would be a bad idea. I'm curious though, if you're on the receiving end of the invasion, are you supposed to clap all your lights on? Have nvg's? If your light becomes a target, it won't much matter if it's mounted, handheld, on your head, whatever. Maybe get some signal flares?
 
Military tactics and civilian tactics are typically very different.

Like completely different universe different.


The fact that he was in the military means almost nothing when it comes to knowledge of weapons and tactics. It depends what he did and how much good training he had.

Not to mention how much he absorbed & remembers.
 
If someone is in your house- they are an innocent until you are convinced otherwise.

Threat? Only a small fraction of the population would be (and most of those aren't violent outlaws), so be vigilent, confident, and don't assume. You do not want to harm someone unnecessarily.

Uh, no they are not innocent until I am convinced otherwise.

They are guilty of trespassing and breaking and entering. If you really think that someone can walk into someone else's house in the middle of the night uninvited and don't think that they are guilty of anything, then there is nothing further to discuss.
 
Weapon mounted light, or handheld light?

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Handheld light is for finding out what is going on.

Weapon mounted light is for addressing known threats.


That being said, my CCW does not have a weapon mounted light. Mostly because the firearm of choice doesn't allow for it but also because I am not sure I could get a light to conceal in my pants...

My home defense pistol (and Carbine) wear a light.

I would rather be shot myself than accidentally shoot the wrong person. Lights can be critical when target ID has lives on the line.

As always, it's a personal choice. Just make sure you know why.
 
Uh, no they are not innocent until I am convinced otherwise.

They are guilty of trespassing and breaking and entering. If you really think that someone can walk into someone else's house in the middle of the night uninvited and don't think that they are guilty of anything, then there is nothing further to discuss.

Neither is a capital offense.
 
Neither is a capital offense.
He never said he would kill someone for entering his house in the middle of the night, only that they would be a threat. An uninvited, unknown person in your house, at night, should be considered to be a threat by any logical person, unless proven to be otherwise. How one handles that threat is up to their personal choice, within constraints of the law. Using a WML can help identify if the threat constitutes an imminent lethal threat to your life or merely a threat to your ability to retain your personal property.

With regards to OP question of WML, as long as the light does not impede your ability to safely and accurately use your gun, I'd rather have the option available than not. Just because you have a light, does not mean you need to use it. Similarly, just because you have a gun, doesn't mean you need to fire it, but it is better to have that option available if needed.
 
I carry always so I’m sensitive to adding too much to carry guns. However, I have a light on my bedside gun and really like that setup. My accessories advice.....more magazines....more ammo....good holster....great belt.

And the Nova is a helluva gun.
 
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I don't know anything about benelli nova shotguns, so I won't comment on them. That said, your "ex mil friend" doesn't know what he is talking about regarding the "useless light" on your pistol. There are a different set of tactics and skills that need to be called upon to fight effectively and safely in low-light or no-light conditions. Its best to get professional instruction and training on these tactics, techniques, and procedures. I will add that target identification is critical in any light conditions, not only to hit your target, but also to identify friend from foe. A weapon mounted light (on whatever weapon(s) you are using) is a critical key piece of equipment. I also keep a hand held light at my bedside- not everything you want to illuminate should necessarily have a gun pointed at it. If you need further convincing, I will point out that virtually all modern service pistols come standard with a light rail. In fact, the army specifically required that on the new Sig pistol. Seeing police officers (not just the SWAT guys) with handgun mounted lights is the new normal. Even during periods of daylight, white lights are needed to visually clear areas such as closets, crawl spaces, large pieces of furniture, or even entire structures in the event of a loss of electricity. As far as shooting while holding a light in the weak hand- yes, it can be done, but that is easier told than saddled and rode. Try it next time you go to the range in the daylight. While you are at it, try doing things like using your phone, opening or closing doors and windows, and things of that nature while holding a gun in one hand and a light in the other. Whatever you decide to do regarding low-light shooting, get some training from someone with experience on the matter.
 
I like a light on my HD weapons. Defending my home from an intruder isn't the same as a military operation. My goal isn't to sneak up on someone and take them out. I don't care if they know I'm there. If the light comes on, and they leave mission accomplished. It ain't my job to catch them. If they don't leave and I have to shoot, then I'll be able to clearly see who I'm shooting at and be certain it isn't someone I don't want to shoot.

If you're worried that the light makes you a target you're overthinking this. If the house lights are on, or during daylight, anyone shooting at you can see you much easier than when staring into a blinding light in their eyes.
 
If you're worried that the light makes you a target you're overthinking this. If the house lights are on, or during daylight, anyone shooting at you can see you much easier than when staring into a blinding light in their eyes.
The concern isn't so much about them shooting at the light when it's shining in their face, it's shooting at it when they see where it's coming from. Obviously you can still see the light source even when it's not shining directly at you. Using a light in a "tactical" situation, in most cases, shouldn't involve leaving it on as you search the house or whatever. The light is constantly being turned on and off. That's why weapon lights should have momentary only switches.
 
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