Reloaded shells are more black...normal?

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Ironwill1406

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Hi All,

I've just gotten into reloading. So far I've processed about 300 rounds of 9mm luger with lee turret.

I've fired about 250 of them and had 1 squib load. Only about an inch from the breech so I'm guessing the powder didnt pour on that one.

I have noticed that all of my hand loads, after firing, are much more black than factory. Am I not crimping enough? Other thoughts? Thanks!
 
I do not have as much experience as others here but it sounds like a possible low powder charge. What projectile weight, powder and powder charge are you using?
 
You should be far, far more worried about a squib in your first 250 rounds than you are. If you're not going to take this seriously, my only recommendation is to find a different hobby that's more tolerant of carelessness.

Regarding sooty cases, it's likely caused by slightly low pressure and a sooty powder choice. It's not really a problem; ignore it.

Taper crimping is not intended to, and cannot, aid in neck tension. It's only purpose is to remove the seating flare.
 
I am using CFE Pistol. Hornady XTP 115 grain. 5.3 grains. Max is 5.9 but I stayed very close to 5.3.

To "edwardware," thanks for your comment. I am very serious and well researched. I deprimed my cases, cleaned them with a frankford tumbler. Lubed them even though I didnt have to. Let dry. CCI primer, small pistol. I then measured and tested the drum pourer 10 times before I started and remeasured every 10th load. I measured the length at first to get to the 1.125 and then remeasured every 10th load for lenght and with a lyman case gauge. I honestly have no idea how a squib was possible. It could be that I have my drum power too tight...i may loosed that.
 
I never had luck with the drum for some reason. Short stroke or whatever powder varies too much for me. The auto disk works way better for pistol rounds. I think then drum does do okay with my unique 45 load for some reason.

I'd kick it up a little from 5.3.
 
So I shared the squib wtih a few reloaders at the range and they seemed to indicate that because it was only an inch from the breech and not way down the barrel, that it was probably just the primer without powder. That seem like a reasonable conclusion?
 
Ironwill1406 said:
I am using CFE Pistol. Hornady XTP 115 grain. 5.3 grains. Max is 5.9 but I stayed very close to 5.3.

To "edwardware," thanks for your comment. I am very serious and well researched. I deprimed my cases, cleaned them with a frankford tumbler. Lubed them even though I didnt have to. Let dry. CCI primer, small pistol. I then measured and tested the drum pourer 10 times before I started and remeasured every 10th load. I measured the length at first to get to the 1.125 and then remeasured every 10th load for lenght and with a lyman case gauge. I honestly have no idea how a squib was possible. It could be that I have my drum power too tight...i may loosed that.
Click to expand...

edwardware is correct...

You need to reevaluate your process to make sure you don't have another squib, I'm not hammering on you, it's just the facts. FWIW, when I got my first powder drop, I struggled with it dropping consistent charges of Unique until it was seasoned enough; something to consider. Further, the 9mm is a high pressure cartridge... you need to pay particular attention to your loading process to ensure it is correct.

Indeed, the sooty cases are an indicator of a poorly burned charge.
 
Some powders are just dirtier than others. When using just one powder for multiple calibers some calibers will have more soot on a fired case than others.

I use Hodgdon Universal for all my pistol loads. I run my charges close to the middle of start and max charge for the caliber and bullet weights I shoot. I can tell you that 9mm brass has more soot on them than my 40 and 45 cases do. The soot does not effect function or accuracy

Ironwill, when you said you staid very close to 5.3 Gr, what is the actual weight of your charge and how much variance are you getting?
 
Charlie98 said:
edwardware is correct...

You need to reevaluate your process to make sure you don't have another squib, I'm not hammering on you, it's just the facts. FWIW, when I got my first powder drop, I struggled with it dropping consistent charges of Unique until it was seasoned enough; something to consider. Further, the 9mm is a high pressure cartridge... you need to pay particular attention to your loading process to ensure it is correct.

Indeed, the sooty cases are an indicator of a poorly burned charge.
Click to expand...
How did you "season" it? Just by use?
 
12Bravo20 said:
Some powders are just dirtier than others. When using just one powder for multiple calibers some calibers will have more soot on a fired case than others.

I use Hodgdon Universal for all my pistol loads. I run my charges close to the middle of start and max charge for the caliber and bullet weights I shoot. I can tell you that 9mm brass has more soot on them than my 40 and 45 cases do. The soot does not effect function or accuracy

Ironwill, when you said you staid very close to 5.3 Gr, what is the actual weight of your charge and how much variance are you getting?
Click to expand...

5.3 on the nose. I did 10 measure tests when setting up the drum tweaking it until it gave consistent 5.3 pours. I then retested every 10th round just to make sure it was still on.
 
There are a number of different ways to season a powder drop, I ran about 5 hoppers of rifle powder (IMR powder uses graphite in it's makeup) through it to coat the hopper and smooth out the mech.
 
Charlie98 said:
There are a number of different ways to season a powder drop, I ran about 5 hoppers of rifle powder (IMR powder uses graphite in it's makeup) through it to coat the hopper and smooth out the mech.
Click to expand...
Okay. I'll run a few through before my next batch. I also installed a halo light under the press as it's in my garage and the lighting was low. This should also allow me to visually identify if the powder does not drop.
 
If you are getting excessively sooty cases-- I agree that you need to bump up the powder charge. At least to 5.4-5.5 and I'll bet the amount of soot begins to decrease. Do not be afraid to head toward the maximum charge (without exceeding it) as you figure out your best load that functions the pistol. You are safe as long as you are methodical and check your loads as you go.

I agree that you probably had no powder in the squib round.

Hint: Work (cycle) the AutoDrum, tightening up the tension screw until the drum does not return to the top. Then, loosen slightly while still cycling the drum repeatedly until it always returns to the top (fill position). If it is a new unit, seasoning by use is in order to make it work better. It does not hurt to throw 50-100 charges and dump them back into the hopper!

2nd hint (more important): I never load a round on my LCT without visually confirming powder is in the case. No squibs, because almost any powder that looks even close to a normal amount will get the bullet to exit the barrel. Always.
 
drband said:
If you are getting excessively sooty cases-- I agree that you need to bump up the powder charge. At least to 5.4-5.5 and I'll bet the amount of soot begins to decrease. Do not be afraid to head toward the maximum charge (without exceeding it) as you figure out your best load that functions the pistol. You are safe as long as you are methodical and check your loads as you go.

I agree that you probably had no powder in the squib round.

Hint: Work (cycle) the AutoDrum, tightening up the tension screw until the drum does not return to the top. Then, loosen slightly while still cycling the drum repeatedly until it always returns to the top (fill position). If it is a new unit, seasoning by use is in order to make it work better. It does not hurt to throw 50-100 charges and dump them back into the hopper!

2nd hint (more important): I never load a round on my LCT without visually confirming powder is in the case. No squibs, because almost any powder that looks even close to a normal amount will get the bullet to exit the barrel. Always.
Click to expand...

Good feedback, thanks. Yeah, that's why I bought the light. Now the ramrod is bright and I can see clearly into the case. Will def season with a few full drums before my next load.
 
I have to agree on bumping up the charge. I would try 5.5Gr.

When I first started reloading on a single stage, I was using the Lee Auto drum and it did need to be broken in. I switched to the Lee Auto Drum on my Turret press and haven't looked back, it meters Universal well.
 
Ironwill1406 said:
I am using CFE Pistol. Hornady XTP 115 grain. 5.3 grains. Max is 5.9 but I stayed very close to 5.3.
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that a charge of 5.3 grains CFE shows signs of being too light. I was loading 5.1 grains of that same powder with 115 grain FMJ's through a 4" barrel and the chronograph showed an average of 1109 fps which isn't all that low. I've since switched to 4.2 grains of Titegroup which averages 1125 fps for me and I'm happy with that. My cases do get somewhat sooty but clean up nice.

I use a drum powder drop with my single stage and set the loaded cases into a loading block then visually inspect the charges before setting the bullets. I probably wouldn't catch a small variation in powder charge but I'd surely see if there was no drop at all or a significantly lower or higher drop. I also weigh every 10th charge.
 
Ironwill1406 said:
. . . because it was only an inch from the breech and not way down the barrel, that it was probably just the primer without powder. That seem like a reasonable conclusion?
Click to expand...
In my experience, a primer will push a 9mm bullet clear of the case, but usually not into the rifling very far. Seems reasonable.

Pretend this mistake cost you a finger, and you just got back from the hospital and can only count to 9. What are you going to do differently so it never happens again?

Reweighing every tenth thrown charge isn't it. Looking into every case is.
 
edwardware said:
In my experience, a primer will push a 9mm bullet clear of the case, but usually not into the rifling very far. Seems reasonable.

Pretend this mistake cost you a finger, and you just got back from the hospital and can only count to 9. What are you going to do differently so it never happens again?

Reweighing every tenth thrown charge isn't it. Looking into every case is.
Click to expand...
Also good feedback. Like I said, the light will help me visually inspect every case. Do you not remeasure as you go along to ensure that the pour has not changed?
 
Not speaking for others but I’d rather think any one hand loading has experienced squibs. Hell you even get one one occasion with factory loads. Using progressives that don’t auto index, like my 550 it can happen more than one would like to admit. Double charges are much more dangerous and must be guarded against.
Squibs are only dangerous if the shooter doesn’t notice and fires another round. In revolvers it most likely will lock up the cylinder, in autos one hopes the shooter has enough sense to clear the bore.

Standard practice when developing a load is to start 10% below suggested starting and “ladder” up from there, I’ll load 10 rounds each up to max and test those. Developing a load may take a hundred rounds or more and several trips to the range. Loading 300 below suggested starting, well some one was extremely optimistic....................
;)
 
Welcome to THR,
lots of great people here.


I have found CFE-P can be sooty at the lower side of it's charge range, nothing to worry about on the soot.
I like to have lots of light when reloading. Different companies make strip LED lights. Fairly inexpensive.
You might consider getting some for the press. Squibs are bad news, so more light helps you see the powder in the case better.
 
Ironwill1406 said:
Do you not remeasure as you go along to ensure that the pour has not changed?
Click to expand...

I'll set the drop, test #10, #20, maybe #40 or so... then go to town, but I am very familiar and confident in my drops. I also actuate the drop by hand, the feel of the handle tells me what's going on with the rotor and the powder... if it doesn't feel right, I stop the process and check.
 
Ironwill1406 said:
I am very serious and well researched.
Click to expand...


When you get into reloading, it's crucial to learn the correct terminology. A shell contains more than one projectile, unless it is for artillery. There are 9mm shot shells made, though it has been a long time since I've seen shotshell capsules made for 9mm for reloading. From your Thread title, I thought you were talking about shotgun shell reloading. The correct term for a single projectile fired in a rifled barreled firearm is a cartridge. If from a smoothbore, the correct term is slug.
Now that the terminology is clear, as others have said, your loads were light, hence the sooting, and you had one with little or no powder.

Ironwill1406 said:
I did 10 measure tests when setting up the drum tweaking it until it gave consistent 5.3 pours.
Click to expand...

First mistake right there. Using a powder measure as a beginner, especially a drum type. . Powder measures "weigh" by volume, and are subject to inaccuracy, both in weight, and in literal accuracy in the final product.The powder can also 'bridge' in the drum, causing a low or no charge, which is most likely what you experienced. Charlie 98 has a good bit of experience with drum measures, if you continue using yours, I suggest PM'ing him on that subject.

whughett said:
Not speaking for others but I’d rather think any one hand loading has experienced squibs.
Click to expand...


I Use Lee Dippers and a 505 scale to weigh my charges. I have never had a squib load in a metallic cartridge in 40+ years of loading. I have had them with my 12 ga. shells, and for the reason I mentioned. The MEC 600 Jr. weighs by volume with a bushing, and you can't easily see the drop. You have to remove the shell from under the wad arm and carefully re-insert it to do so. Since I restarted loading shotgun shells, I've had one in about 6000. Cost me a 25 straight, too. :cuss:

It sounds like you have the almost OCD level of concern toward reloading that it requires, and I am not trying to dissuade you. Just wanted you to get the terms right, and offer an option that might work better for you, at least to start with.
 
Dudedog said:
Welcome to THR,
lots of great people here.


I have found CFE-P can be sooty at the lower side of it's charge range, nothing to worry about on the soot.
I like to have lots of light when reloading. Different companies make strip LED lights. Fairly inexpensive.
You might consider getting some for the press. Squibs are bad news, so more light helps you see the powder in the case better.
Click to expand...
I bought that lee turret press specific undermounted led light halo...super bright now. Thanks!
 
Look in every case when placing the bullet!!! You will never have a squib again from lack of powder. I had problems with the safety mechanism on the Auto drum that is supposed to stop it from causing a double charge. It would not reset and would not drop powder. I took that off and never looked back. No problems since. Like everyone else said a dirty case could be low pressure not expanding the case to the chamber letting gasses blow by some. As long as it cycles the gun fine it is not a problem.

Slow down and
LOOK IN EVERY CASE!!!
 
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