It is really crazy and outrageous. Not just the LGS but small businesses in general. The price increment and shortage of everything seems to be the new way. People say its because of thousands of new gun owners but i don't think thats true. I think Manufacturers don't make so much products watching the actions of the new Biden's administrations. If they go all out and make all the ammo and guns we want and gun confiscation get enforced who's gonna buy what is left on the market ?
How long can a LGS survive?
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Phaedrus/69
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I don't imagine bad gun shops help the RKBA much at all. Definitely missing the theaters though. For my adult life I've pretty much gone to see a movie every week or every other week, give or take. Outside of camping, hiking and shooting I'd say movies are one of my biggest hobbies.
Very true! It took me a long time to figure that out. Many of the sites I frequent will be out of stock of everything, but I drill down into the Gunbroker listings and they have tons of stuff in their stores there. Kind of sucks in a way since often they just add a zero to the price!
Dale Alan
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My son owns a shop in a mall , the mall has been a ghost town for almost a year . Between that and lacking supplies it's been really tough . Luckily for him he picked up a good job for the university he graduated from , without that he would be hurting . I just bought two guns yesterday from a dealer that's been in business 40 years , he normally has hundreds of guns . He now has 11 after I bought two , and not sure when the next shipment is coming.If he was not a retired corrections officer he would be closing his doors , he may still have to do that if supplies don't pick back up .
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Mike OTDP
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From what I'm seeing, it helps a lot to offer more than just firearms and ammo. Having a good gunsmith on premises is a real help.
[QUOTE="mmb617] He has always been happy to do transfers for guns bought online, it's quick and easy money. I doubt if he makes more by selling his own stock, so why would he not want to do those transfers? The only way not wanting the online transfers makes sense is if his own prices are so high he makes an obscene profit on them.[/QUOTE].
Transfers are rarely quick and are not what I would call easy money. Doing transfers is typically a loss leader to get folks in the shop which is usually just looking to break even.
Transfers are rarely quick and are not what I would call easy money. Doing transfers is typically a loss leader to get folks in the shop which is usually just looking to break even.
gnappi
Member
Larger, established well funded LGS still can get firearms and ammo, but hey may not be able to be as selective in what they can order as they did in the past.
Smaller operations may have needed to raise prices to stay in business, but may not be able to replenish stock because distributors are selling to the well funded stores. Now that local gunshows have opened up, many larger dealers from further away are coming into my area with lots of stock, further squeezing the LGS. The rent still has to be paid so I've seen transfers go from $10-$25 to $45 and up, as well as commission on consignments go up.
I've even heard of dealers asking clients who may consign whether they want a "net" listing meaning the dealer can sell for substantially more than the owner wants if an opportunity to sell arises and keep all of the uplift in the sale price.
It's unfair to blame them though, faced with watching clients buy stuff they don't have to sell, and selling guns for clients that the clients don't want to sell online, they have every right to try to maximize the dollars their FFL can bring in.
Smaller operations may have needed to raise prices to stay in business, but may not be able to replenish stock because distributors are selling to the well funded stores. Now that local gunshows have opened up, many larger dealers from further away are coming into my area with lots of stock, further squeezing the LGS. The rent still has to be paid so I've seen transfers go from $10-$25 to $45 and up, as well as commission on consignments go up.
I've even heard of dealers asking clients who may consign whether they want a "net" listing meaning the dealer can sell for substantially more than the owner wants if an opportunity to sell arises and keep all of the uplift in the sale price.
It's unfair to blame them though, faced with watching clients buy stuff they don't have to sell, and selling guns for clients that the clients don't want to sell online, they have every right to try to maximize the dollars their FFL can bring in.
Captcurt
Member
The GB sales may fall off now that many states are implementing sales tax on internet sales. I have been selling some high-dollar items and the taxes could raise the prices by $150-$300. That might help out the Local businesses. Now they are playing on level ground.
denton
Member
There is an amazing LGS about 70 miles south of me. I don't know how they do it, but they manage to have something in stock through thick or thin. They may not have exactly what you're searching for in lean times, but they will have bullets, powder, and even primers, plus an assortment of firearms. A couple of weeks ago, I had occasion to walk through Sportsman's and Cabelas, and that little LGS had far more than both of the others combined. Scored a couple of boxes of 150 grain 30 cal Speers, passed up 8 pounds of RL19 equivalent, and went home happy. Guy ahead of me had 2 bricks of primers.
I expect that by the end of all this we're going to lose most of the little guys. Most gun stores are run by firearm enthusiasts who have no business skills and most have terrible or non existent websites that don't stay current with their inventory.
Let's also face the fact that the Internet has taken a toll as well. People don't need to go to a shop and talk to someone knowledgeable in person anymore. They can find whatever information they need on Youtube or the forums and then go pick up what they want wherever they can get it the cheapest. The average gun owner doesn't need whatever little extra services that a small shop can provide.
I'm not saying I like the change, but times change and things don't ever stay the same as they were in the good old days. I have fond memories of going to local gun shops or surplus stores but it's a dying industry and I'm going to go wherever I can get the most value for my dollar because I only have so many of those to go around.
Let's also face the fact that the Internet has taken a toll as well. People don't need to go to a shop and talk to someone knowledgeable in person anymore. They can find whatever information they need on Youtube or the forums and then go pick up what they want wherever they can get it the cheapest. The average gun owner doesn't need whatever little extra services that a small shop can provide.
I'm not saying I like the change, but times change and things don't ever stay the same as they were in the good old days. I have fond memories of going to local gun shops or surplus stores but it's a dying industry and I'm going to go wherever I can get the most value for my dollar because I only have so many of those to go around.
gonoles_1980
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I just wish I had an LGS close by that I could stop at and check for primers, I'd pay higher for a box of a thousand as long as it was cheaper than I could order online with shipping and hazmat fees (though you can't find them online). My local LGS store had decent prices on guns last I checked a few years ago, but their ammo was high priced then, so I wouldn't bother to check them for ammo.
mmb617
Member
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Transfers are rarely quick and are not what I would call easy money. Doing transfers is typically a loss leader to get folks in the shop which is usually just looking to break even.[/QUOTE]
Unless there's some factor in play that I don't know about it's hard for me to see how the LGS isn't making a decent profit from transfers. The going price around here is about $30 and after I fill out my end of the form it takes the store 5-10 minutes tops to complete the transfer. Out of that fee $2 goes to the state and $3 goes to the feds, or the other way around, I don't remember. So he's left with $25 for a few minutes work. Sounds profitable to me.
At any rate of the four local stores I've dealt with none seemed at all turned off about doing transfers for guns bought on the internet.
vintovka
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Last time i was in our LGS i overheard owner making big ammo order in all sorts of calibers. He was so engrossed in the order he stopped waiting on customers and many, myself included, walked out. Couldn't blame him think call from distributor took him by surprise and he was overwhelmed by the opportunity to order anything again.
As for Movie theators i may never go again. Rude "viewers", Cell phones and disgusting conditions are appalling. Was even a fight when customers refused to get off phone in the middle of a movie. I do morn for the restaurants. Last one we went to had to sit one booth apart reducing capacity by 50%. Even then we got "ordered" to sit as far into the booth as possible. Good restaurants require adequate attendance to ensure food stocks are fresh. Not happening in many.
vintovka
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May add seeing an unusually large number of NPBs since tax thing started. Many are unaware their state now charges tax and (despite GB warnings) don't see it till after they buy. I expect it to grow when 39 of the 50 states are sucking up free $$. GB is getting tough on NPBs and permanently suspending account with as little as 1 for newbies. I have no doubt they sell NPBs info for others to use as vetting,
Dale Alan
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I find just the opposite around here . The LGS are run by smart business folks that are profit "enthusiasts" . Sure some of them love firearms , most only the know the money part of firearms and are chained to their business to be able to eat . While we are out shooting they are stuck in the shop making sure we can enjoy the sport and also ensuring they can afford to keep the doors open.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
We have a new LGS that opened this winter. He seams to be doing fine. And he is not price gouging. The LGS i used to deal with got greedy. A lot of folks who dealt with him has started going to the new shop. He was hiring too recently.
rhodester
Member
I visited my LGS today, Fin Feather Fir, in Canton, Ohio today. Gun cases were about 50% full and prices were up about 10-20 %. Ammo was pretty scarce and very costly. FFF is a great place and the owner Mike is a great 2A supporter.
It appears they are doing well and will make it to better times.
It appears they are doing well and will make it to better times.
Yes, the industry is experiencing record sales and profits. Everything sells as soon as they put it on display when the store opens in the morning. You walk in later in the day and see empty shelves and wrongly conclude they haven't sold anything. If the shelves were full that would mean those products aren't selling. What is good for sellers is not the same as what is good for buyers. Buyers want to be able to go into a store on their time schedule and see every conceivable model.
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I am not a youngster and have seen this phenomena happen so many times its incredible! Panic Buying is so ridiculous and leads us to the situation we are in now. Luckily my LGS know what primers and powders I need, and I get a phone call to advise me if he gets any thing in that he knows I use. I shoot twice a week and he knows my usage. . Even he is frustrated and has jacked up prices to Non Regular customers. Cant say I blame him, as people are doing the rounds of all the stores and then if they find anything, according to him, they buy it to resell! Such a shame and a new hardship for some of our regular shooters. One guy came in while I was there and tried to sell him ammo at about 3 times regular price! When and where does this idiocy stop?.
vintovka
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Around here even our local Bi-Mart is loaded with new handguns and NO AMMO.
Your definitions of “quick” and “easy” must vary significantly from mine. Granted, an FFL has to be careful with the paperwork, but the process itself is pretty straightforward. The only “investment” is the time it takes to make the call. On average it takes my transfer dealer 5 minutes to call the State. Sometimes on a very busy day, he has to call back again later. In states that have online systems (like VA), there isn’t even any waiting on hold — just check the computer to see when it’s been adjudicated. That sounds pretty quick and easy to me.
If you’re paying someone $20/hr and they spend 12 mins doing a transfer call, that’s $4. At the going rate of $25-$50 per transfer, that’s a lot of “pure profit” (even more if you’re the owner and “paying” yourself). Is it as much as they would make by selling the gun, too? Nope...but it’s more than they would make if the new owner used a different FFL.
Phaedrus/69
Member
The pawn & gun I used for transfers back in the Midwest loved doing them! He considered it pure gravy. Only charged $20 but he did a ton of them and it all extra money for him, no overhead added and nothing invested in inventory. His was a fairly small shop and I can see where a larger independent store might see it as a lost sale instead of an opportunity.
[QUOTE="Navy87Guy]
If you’re paying someone $20/hr and they spend 12 mins doing a transfer call, that’s $4. At the going rate of $25-$50 per transfer, that’s a lot of “pure profit” (even more if you’re the owner and “paying” yourself).[/QUOTE]
There is a lot more involved in doing transfers than a 12 minute phone call. Not a shop in the world does a complete transfer in 12 minutes.
If you’re paying someone $20/hr and they spend 12 mins doing a transfer call, that’s $4. At the going rate of $25-$50 per transfer, that’s a lot of “pure profit” (even more if you’re the owner and “paying” yourself).[/QUOTE]
There is a lot more involved in doing transfers than a 12 minute phone call. Not a shop in the world does a complete transfer in 12 minutes.
I talked to the owner of a local shop Saturday and he was talking about shutting down for a week or 2. He said he was tired of not having anything to sell and turning customers away empty handed. He had some hunting rifles, but probably only 7 or 8 handguns. He would normally have 50-60 at any given time.
The busiest shop in town is one that does consignment sales. I've noticed alot more handguns in the cases with the red price tags they use for consignments, a fair number of rifles and shotguns too. They are the only shop that has been getting any handgun ammo in too. Though, never more then 1000 rounds of any caliber at a time. It doesn't last 24 hours when it does.
The busiest shop in town is one that does consignment sales. I've noticed alot more handguns in the cases with the red price tags they use for consignments, a fair number of rifles and shotguns too. They are the only shop that has been getting any handgun ammo in too. Though, never more then 1000 rounds of any caliber at a time. It doesn't last 24 hours when it does.
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