My 73rd Birthday Gift (?) definitely solved (?)

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AndyUSMC1107

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C39F2DE2-FA09-4B4B-B5E5-83E1CA170617.jpeg 95FCAC71-4458-4DA7-BC7C-A23334158776.jpeg C4B9A292-8180-42E4-9455-EC8146933A89.jpeg First, I want to thank a those responsible fo much feedback!

A search of TheFirearmsForum (March 30, 2009) provided the thread including the 3 (red background) pics of “My Gift.”

A Wiki-search provided (and I quote): “Hulbert of Merwin Hulbert & Co. (1874-1896) was a prolific firearms designer/marketer based in NY City. MH revolvers were manufactured by a subsidiary of Hopkins & Allen.” I DO realize that WIKI is “reader generated/edited/corrected and has to be taken w/ “a grain of salt.”

I have a 111 page copy of Hopkins & Allen Revolvers and Pistols by Charles Condon coming.

Obviously, as pointed out by DwJ and others, H&A revolvers had a “lower price point” than MH revolvers.

The 1887 catalogue print of the XL Double Action 3 1/2” (revolver) with folding hammer and side ejector marketed as a MH & Co. was possibly a H&A “marketing ploy to “raise the price point.” Unfortunately, I don’t know if they were so roll marked MH...perhaps Condon will have an answer.

“My Gift” is a 4 digit serial #8xxx. The 2nd patent date is Apt. 29, ‘84. making my revolver’s production year as 1885-early ‘86.
Well before the factory fire of 1899. Later versions of the revolver were roll marked “BULLDOG.” All, including mine were 6 shooters. Mine is .32 S&W. I now have a beautifully preserved 136 year old revolver!

The only flaw to my revolver is a broken hammer “ear” thru which the spring loaded pin holding the folding hammer spur is broken at the bottom of the pin. Would you believe I found a $60. partial parts group that includes an un-damaged folding hammer! I should get it in the next coupla’ days.
 
That is one firearm I'd love to have. Congratulations and Happy Birthday! What is the caliber?
 
That is one firearm I'd love to have. Congratulations and Happy Birthday! What is the caliber?
.32 S&W x 6,tho .32 S&W Longs (x 6) will chamber. I was offered $800. today @ my local independent gun store.

This one will go to my Son & on and on...
 
“My Gift” is a 4 digit serial #8xxx. The 2nd patent date is Apt. 29, ‘84. making my revolver’s production year as 1885-early ‘86.
Well before the factory fire of 1899. Later versions of the revolver were roll marked “BULLDOG.” All, including mine were 6 shooters. Mine is .32 S&W. I now have a beautifully preserved 136 year old revolver!

I just love the old Merwin Hulbert's and have been trying to acquire one of the Army models though I'd love to have your model as well. They are not an old Colt or S&W and just don't have the general appeal in the collector market that the bigger more well known brands have. But if you read the history of these older companies history they are really quite fascinating brands. And, I suspect in their day they weren't as 'off brand' as we think of them today.

Consider that at one time the Stevens Company advertised that they were the largest sporting firearm manufacturer in the world. They may not have actually been that but I suspect they were at least close enough to the largest that they were comfortable making that claim. And this was before they were purchased by Savage in the teens or early twenties. Bigger than Colt or S&W in that day? Maybe not, but a player none the less.

How important was Merwin Hulbert in its day? I have read that they supplied a lot of firearms to the then emerging municipal police departments. MW didn't survive the test of time, but if they did, would the legacy be the same? Hopkins & Allen are and were known for inexpensive personal defense guns. But they could produce high quality firearms. @AndyUSMC1107 's example being one of them and the Belgium Mausers being another. I suspect that Andy's double action was one of those made for that emerging police market. Merwin Hulbert & Co. never manufactured anything and Hopkins & Allen produced all of the revolvers for Merwin Hulbert & Co. I believe that the Merwin Hulbert firearms were well thought of in their day and would be better known and respected today had they survived beyond when they did. I suspect the association with Hopkins & Allen didn't help Merwin's legacy due to H&A's reputation for inexpensive defensive guns.

All in all a very nice birthday present and one I would be proud to own and shoot. I will now have to keep my eyes open for one of the double actions. Color me jealous.
 
TrailBoss & yup, I’ve had dies for years.

Just so you know, Trail Boss is not a Black Powder substitute. Despite the name it is a Smokeless powder with a relatively fast burn rate. Really not suitable for old guns that should only be fired with cartridges loaded with Black Powder. I would be leery of using Trail Boss in a revolver like that, the steel is probably not very strong.

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If you don't want to deal with the muss and fuss of loading cartridges with real Black Powder, I suggest American Pioneer Powder (APP). Unlike real Black, you can use conventional hard cast bullets with regular modern hard bullet lube with APP.

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I suspect the association with Hopkins & Allen didn't help Merwin's legacy due to H&A's reputation for inexpensive defensive guns.

This is pretty much what Art Phelps said in his book The Story of Merwin Hulbert & Company Firearms. Phelps maintained that the association with Hopkins and Allen's less expensive revolvers is what kept Merwin Hulbert revolvers from being considered as high quality as Colt or Smith and Wesson.

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I tend to disagree. A cursory inspection of the lockwork parts of a Merwin Hulbert shows the machining of the parts was not as high quality as the parts in a Smith and Wesson Top Break.

This photo shows the lockwork of my Pocket Army chambered for 44-40. This is the revolver pictured above in the photo of the book.

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This photo shows the lockwork of a S&W Schofield. The machining of the parts is sharper and better defined than with the MH parts.

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Then there is the 'myth' about Merwin Hulberts being the most precisely manufactured cartridge revolver of the 1870s and 1880s, as told by Phelps, because of the unique way the barrel and cylinder swiveled to be loaded and unloaded. Phelps fails to mention that Smith and Wesson held all the patents to make Top Break revolvers at that time, so Joseph Merwin had to come up with a completely different system than a Top Break to build the revolvers that carried his name. He also fails to mention that although a Merwin Hulbert can be unloaded just as swiftly as a S&W Top Break, it cannot be reloaded as quickly as a Top Break. The revolver needs to be closed up and reoaded one round at a time through a loading gate, not much different than a Colt. A MH cannot be reloaded when broken open.

In this photo empties have been dumped out of my Pocket Army.

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This photo shows the extractor ring that engaged the rims of the cartridges and held them in place against the recoil shield when the barrel and cylinder were rotated and pulled forward.

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A cartridge rim cannot be slid under the extractor ring when the revolver is broken open.

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That is why there was a sliding loading gate. When the revolver had been closed up, rims could slide under the extractor ring. But they had to be loaded one at a time, not much different than a Colt. The difference being the loading gate on the MH slid down, and because of the position of the gate, in order to safely load only five rounds, the order would be load 2, skip one, load 3 more, as opposed to load 1, skip 1, load 4 more with a Colt.

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Phelps also claimed that the precision of the mating parts of a Merwin Hulbert was better than anything else being made at the time. Hogwash. Smith and Wesson was completely capable of designing fixtures to build such a revolver if they had wanted to, they did not need to because they were producing Top Breaks which were quicker to unload and reload than a Merwin Hulbert.

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Don't get me wrong, Merwin Hulberts were interesting revolvers and very unique. That is why I consider myself lucky enough to own 4 of them.

This pair of 3rd Model Frontier Armies required extensive modification by a now retired gunsmith to make them shootable, so they would not command a very high price in the collectors market.

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This medium frame 38 is my newest (and most likely my last) MH acquisition

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Anyway, shooting a Merwin Hulbert with Black Powder is always fun, and usually attracts a curious crowd when I shoot it at a Cowboy match.

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This photo shows the lockwork of my Pocket Army chambered for 44-40. This is the revolver pictured above in the photo of the book

I am so glad you showed that picture. I have the solid fram H&A Army. It is a solid frame but I have always suspected that H&A used a very similar hammer set up as the Merwin. Possibly the same hammer. Till now I have been cautious and not removed the hammer until I had an idea of what was behind that solid frame. After some more inspection and familiarizing with the pins and screws I'm probably going to remove the hammer. Much like my recent acquisition of a Colt 1849, my H&A will release the hammer from half cock if I pull the trigger. I suspect that half cock notch is worn and I'd like to see what I have.

Regarding your post and the 'quality' of workmanship in the Merwin Hulbert, I can't say I consider them better or worse. Your pictures certainly show the differences in the level of machining between the S&W and the MH. The S&W being much better finished on the inside. But I wonder if that is a true marker of total quality. If a conscious business decision was made to spend the labor in areas that can be seen I could still call the MH a quality piece. Not better, but a quality piece. The MH certainly had different, probably more machining steps and maybe to stay competitive with the S&W some other nonessential parts had to be made functional and not as 'pretty'. I never bought into the idea that the MH was levels above the competitors. That sounds more like a marketing sound bite then reality.

I still love the OP's gun and would buy that one in a minute if I could find one. Like most others, I drool at pictures of your collection. You don't by chance live in a museum, do you?
 
Howdy Again

I noticed a long time ago that the lockwork of a Merwin Hulbert greatly resembled the lockwork of a S&W Top Break.

Here is the lockwork of one of my top strap Frontier Armies.

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Here is the lockwork in a S&W New Model Number Three.

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The first large frame Merwin Hulbert did not come out until 1876, S&W had developed the lockwork for their Top Breaks in 1869 for their American Model. I suspect MH simply copied the S&W lockwork. Notice again the superior machining of the S&W lockwork. It does not make sense to me that MH was putting more time and effort into the 'visible' parts of their revolvers. Part of a hammer is visible on the outside of the revolver. It is a single piece and it makes no sense that MH would have been machining the visible part better than the rest of the part that was hidden inside the frame. I simply believe S&W was putting more time and effort into making better machined parts. No arguement that MH's parts worked, they were just not machined to as high a degree.
 
they were just not machined to as high a degree.
I don't disagree. S&W certainly produced a more refined product.

putting more time and effort into the 'visible' parts

Poor selection of words on my part. The thought I was trying to convey was that MH probably made a value decision. Given a budget of man hours to machine and fit, I suspect the MH had more parts to machine/fit than the S&W. I'm thinking of the extractor ring and latching surfaces specifically. I don't know what each was selling for in the day, but I assume MH was competing directly with both the S&W and Colt and the prices would need to be at least similar.

We've drifted off of the OP's topic which was a superb example of a Merwin Hulbert Double Action 38 that I would love to own!
 
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