SW 686 Quality control slipping?

Yep

I've seen some bad looking GP100's too

I imagine the skilled S&W craftsmen have long since retired and the new business model is six sigma-hurry up and rush them out the door.

Six Sigma
ISO xxxx

“QP” would be a more appropriate term. The P stands for “pretend”. Not sure what the Q stands for. It’s not ”quality”.

I saw a S&W 19 Carry Comp a few months ago. I got really excited to be able to put my hands on one. Then I saw the barrel markings. It looked like King King wielded the hammer to chisel the barrel markings where it said “S&W .357 Magnum”. Truly a disappointment. The sales guy asked me if I wanted to see anything and I said “No, I’ve seen enough” and left.

Quality at S&W has been declining for a long time.

I bought a 686-6, brand spanky-new, a few years ago. I bought it because I did not have any L frame Smiths in my collection, and the price was pretty good.






But when I got it to the range, I had to crank the rear sight all the way to the right to get it to shoot to point of aim. Allow me to clarify, I have been shooting revolvers for over 50 years, and I do know how to shoot them.






When I got it home,I took a closer look. It turns out the barrel is cranked slightly too much and the yoke cannot close all the way. That is why I had to set the sight way to the right to get it to hit at point of aim.






I understand that S&W is in business to make money, and trust me on this, I know that over their long history they have always striven to lower the cost to manufacture. Any smart business will do that.


In the past, there were multiple in process inspection steps that would have caught this defect. This is what the yoke should look like when it is closed. the joint should be almost invisible.






It seems these days the final QC inspector is the customer, and S&W has made the decision to allow stuff out the door that never would have gone out the door years ago. S&W seems to have decided it is less expensive to correct mistakes that got out the door than to correct them in the first place.

Shame on me for not catching that defect in the first place, shame on S&W for letting it out the door.

I am an avid S&W collector, but in the future my acquisitions of S&W revolvers will be limited to old stuff, I will not be buying any more new Smith and Wesson revolvers.

I have only bought two new S&W revolvers in the past couple of years, a 4” Model 48 .22 WMR and a 4” Model 69 .44 Mag.

I have no complaints about either gun, both have loaded, fired and extracted well for me (Extraction was an issue with my older 6” Model 48.)

I will say that the extractor star is a bit cheesy compared to older guns, it looks like a stamping made from a pie tin rather than something substantial. So far its been good, but if i get sticky cases I hope it holds up.

My only cosmetic issue with either one is the writing on the barrel is huge compared to older guns. That doesn’t affect the overall gun performance, just an observation.

Stay safe.

To be fair I have bought 2 new S&W revolvers in the past 2 years, a model 25-15 and a model 63. They were & are excellent. Except for a dink in the bluing on the 25 that I am sure the dealer put on it taking it in and out of their safe every night. I decided not to send it into S&W to reblue the barrel (they did offer when asked) because the gun shoots dead on POA. I wouldn’t want that to change so I am leaving it alone.

Now, I had a model 60 Pro that was a different story. I bought it in 2016. My BP is good right now so I will refrain from telling that story now.

Random 8 said:

Just handled a new 686 at LGS after not seeing any in a long time. I was struck by an apparent lack of QC. The inside of the frame was very rough, and chambers, muzzle and leade had visible tooling marks. I'm surprised it left the factory in such condition, rougher overall than my Taurus 66, with worrisome flaws in functional areas.

Alerted the staff to the issue and they should expect a warranty return if they send it out the door.

Anyone else noticing rough NIB Smiths?

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This comes of no surprise at all, strictly from what I've heard from others.
For every new Smith that comes out, the higher the price gets on the Vintage ones.
Ending on a positive note, I've got to believe though the lack of attention to fit/finish, modern technology and metallurgy, etc has to have many hidden advantages in the new guns, although not visible to the eye......maybe someone can elaborate on this....

Current Smiths are good to go.

What some are reporting are mostly minor cosmetic flaws that can happen with any brand name. From a tech standpoint, the new 2-piece barrels and other improvements make for some of the most durable and accurate Smiths yet. I own a new 642 that’s been great and have fired a friends new 629. Both excellent and heads and shoulders above any Ruger. Colt is also making the best wheelguns they’ve had in decades. It’s a good time to be a wheel nut.

The quality control is almost non existent in most companies these days. Take the ammo manufactures, they are dumping out junk ammo. I see many more duds than I have ever seen before (I recycle the duds from our range) it's mostly primer problems with improperly seated bullets (non chambering) coming in a close 2nd.

AK Hunter said:

The quality control is almost non existent in most companies these days.

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Yep. Most manufacturers have decided it's cheaper to let the end consumer do quality control rather than paying people to do it in-house.

I ordered a 627 PC Snub Nose a few weeks ago. Showed up at the LGS with no front sight blade. Not in the case anywhere nor was the fed ex box opened prior to me seeing it. I just refused transfer and Grab-A-Gun was very easy to work with. I now have a TRR8 on the way. I hope it’s better.

No idea. I stopped looking at new S&W's years ago. The fit & finish advantage they used to have over Ruger is non-existent.

I'm a die-hard S&W fan but but their quality isn't what it has been in the past. It started a downhill slide years ago when it was sold to Bangor-Punta. It got worse when Lear Siegler bought them. In 1987 it was sold to Tompkins PLC. They turned it around for a while. They invested heavily in CNC machines and things were pretty good. In 2001 Saf-T-Hammer Corporation (the owners of the patent for "the lock") bought them. There's been a steady decline in popularity and quality ever since. They did to S&W what AMC did to Jeep.

Inspect before you buy.

Folks did that back in the day.

Why not now?

(I suppose one answer is LGS con't
stock like they used to and buyers are
at the mercy of "catalog distributors."
So, then don't buy, period.)

Random 8 said:

Anyone else noticing rough NIB Smiths?

Click to expand...

Yes.

I had to send a new 686 back to ‘SAW’ for repairs due to jamming and timing failures.

Mine didn’t have the same issues you noted – no tooling marks or a rough frame.

It functions well now and is a joy to shoot – but it should never have left the factory in the conditions I received it in.

UncleEd said:

Inspect before you buy.

Folks did that back in the day.

Why not now?

(I suppose one answer is LGS con't
stock like they used to and buyers are
at the mercy of "catalog distributors."
So, then don't buy, period.)

Click to expand...

Great solution.

Yea.

Yes ..QC is slipping across the board..
All gun makers …. Seems like Taurus is improving..
All others heading in the opposite direction…

Old_Grouch said:

It started a downhill slide years ago when it was sold to Bangor-Punta.

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I have heard some folks think they were not very good. I have to respectfully disagree about the Bangor Punta days. Maybe some were not very good, but these three were all made in the 1970s. The quality is fine.

Model 17-3. I bought it brand-spanky new in 1975.






Model 19-3. I also bought this one brand-spanky new in 1975.






Model 14-3. I bought this one used a few years ago. It shipped in 1974.

UncleEd said:

Inspect before you buy.

Click to expand...

I have been collecting S&W revolvers for almost 50 years.

I always inspect before I buy. It just never occurred to me to look for a yoke that would not close all the way, I had never seen anything like that before.

Now I know better.

Although I believe the two piece barrel on my 66 is probably better functionally that the one piece that's on my 66-3 I don't appreciate it the way I do the older smith. It reminds my of an old daisy bb gun.

I've not bought a new Smith & Wesson since 1982 or so. The last new one I purchased is a still owned 581 (blued, fixed sights, L frame, four inch barrel) .357 Magnum. It does not have a pinned barrel or recessed chambers, but has worked quite well all the time I've had it.

I was never impressed with the dropping of the recess in the chambers nor the force fit barrels. The Hilary hole ended my interest entirely. I have more than a few S&W revolvers (and three semiautomatics) but they are from the Bangor Punta era or prior. I will not buy one of the current offerings.

I did hear from older shooters (Old Grouch exemplifies this) the quality of S&W dropped when purchased by Bangor Punta. I seem to have seen that from the older arms I've acquired. However, they were solid and very functional. I suppose the last change is the one signaling the dreadful drop in quality. The next change of hands refreshing the brand to older standards does not strike me as a return to proper quality I fear. I'd like to be wrong.

Bought a brand-new 642 within the past year. It's okay. It goes bang and shoots straight. The trigger is nothing special.

I prefer the older ones.

Random 8 said:

I'd had my heart set on a 686. Based on the above replies, I think I'll keep looking for an older one or a Colt, or maybe just another Taurus. The Ruger is a good gun, but they just don't feel right in my hands

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If I am in your shoes, I would take a long, hard look at 686-3 or -4, Target Champion:



Those 686-3 and -4 are earlier revolvers, with no MIM parts.

Some of my shooting buddies have 686 Target Champion, and IMO it has better fit and finish than my ordinary 686-3. Yeah, you will probably pay few bucks more than for standard 686, but you will get better revolver, with that nice, long hammer spur. Just check it well, starting with barrel forcing cone (look for erosion), no sign of barrel ringing, and make sure that revolver is generally in a top shape.