Bwana John
Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,962
I’d go with the Federal GMM.
No they don't. The four deer I've shot with TSX or similar all copper bullets, save one, was DRT. And she went in a tight circle, went down, tried to get up but couldn't. No more than 5 feet from where she was originally standing.
All shots were either heart/lung. Well one I missed the heart on a bad wind read at 325y and was only a double lung hit. No need to bust shoulders, aim for the boiler room and they perform just fine.
All were 150gr out of a 308 Winchester M70.
Run 168 gr. TSX in a 24" .30-06.
Anything less, would opt for the 150 gr.
Velocity makes copper bullets effective.
If it helps, a member on another forum emailed Barnes and they recommended a minimum impact velocity of 1800 fps for the 150 grain TSX and 1500 fps for the 168 grain TSX.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/E...erest_you/16-696242/&page=1&anc=bottom#bottom
I don't normally ask for references/citations, but on this one, I will. Nothing personal, and I'm not saying yore lying, but I can't think of any reason why a manufacturer wouldn't use the same projectile in their loaded ammo and in their component ammo. It doesn't make sense on a marketing level, a logistics level, or a manufacturing level.The 150 TTSX component bullet is tougher than the 150 TTSX that is loaded in the VOR-TX .308 and .30-06 factory ammo.
I don't normally ask for references/citations, but on this one, I will. Nothing personal, and I'm not saying yore lying, but I can't think of any reason why a manufacturer wouldn't use the same projectile in their loaded ammo and in their component ammo. It doesn't make sense on a marketing level, a logistics level, or a manufacturing level.
For those of you who said "lighter/faster bullet" you're right. Did some cursory research, which Ishould have done before I posted here, and found the the 150 grn is 2100fps at 400 yrds w/ 21" of drop and the 168 grn falls below 2000 fps just after 300 yrds.
Barrel length is huge in this equation. Like I said, it's not my gun. In any event, no disrespect to Jeff Cooper, but I never embraced the whole "Scout Rifle" concept.Whereas the .30-06/168 gr. (24" barrel) hits around 2150 fps at 300 yds. w/ 8.5" drop, which is enough for most practical hunting needs.
As a deep woods deer rifle it makes a lot of sense. Once you get out to 200 yds and beyond, (more or less) it's utility begins to diminish.Barrel length is huge in this equation. Like I said, it's not my gun. In any event, no disrespect to Jeff Cooper, but I never embraced the whole "Scout Rifle" concept.
It seems odd, but that's what I read on another forum. The post was dated October 25, 2022.
"I reached out to Barnes asking if I should step down to the 150 grain bullet since I am loosing about 120 fps with my 18" barrel as I was concerned about expansion and there reply was:
'The beautiful thing about the 168 gr TTSX is it was designed with a low impact velocity for expansion for cartridges like the 308 Win and 30-06; 1500 fps. At that impact velocity you will see 1.7x expansion diameter of the original bullet diameter. If 2x expansion diameter is desired raise the 1500 fps to 1600 fps. Now, the 150 gr TTSX for reloading is designed with a 2000 fps minimum in case reloaders shoot it from a 300 magnum cartridge where the 150 TTSX shot from our factory loaded Vor-Tx ammo in 308 Win or 30-06 is rated to expand down to 1600 fps. Clear as mud? You’ll be able to reach out further than you thought with your 308 Win.'"