If you dont conceal your weapon, can you be charged with a concealed weapon?

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shootistpd27

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I am a police officer who is an avid 2nd amendment advocate. Even though I am a cop, I still keep a valid firearm permit since I could be fired at anytime for anything. A fellow officer asked me a question that has left me perplexed every since. His question was "If you find someone with a pistol on his person, in open view, and is not causing a disturbance or anything; and he does not have a concealed weapons permit. Is he doing anything illegal?" At first I said that he would be charged with having a concealed weapon without a permit, however when I thought about it, the weapon was not concealed, so that charge will not fit. I am researching my code books trying to find out what a person could be charged with but as of yet I have not found any. Be advised that I live in Mississippi. We are a pretty conservative state but we dont have a gunslinger law. I went on a call one evening at a chinese restaurant where there was a gentleman with a 44 magnum draped across his chest. He had a valid CCW from Tennessee however the permit allows for a CONCEALED weapon only. I asked him to conceal the weapon and he did, but I dont know of a law on the books that would have allowed me charge him with anything. I would appreciate any thoughts on this. Personally I think that everyone should be allowed to open carry as long as the weapon is made safe and holstered. I know that if someone saw someone open carrying that they would most likely call the police however, even if I saw them with an open carry weapon but were not showing any signs of violence, I wouldnt be able to do anything to him, nor would I want to.
 
If there is no "Open carry" law in Mississippi, couldn't you charge him with displaying/carrying a firearm/Not cased?
 
Check this out

http://www.opencarry.org/ms.html

Looks like MS is only sort of an "Open Carry" permissive state. The MS Supreme Court says that a holster constitutes concealment, so a permit is required whether carried openly or concealed.

Unless the carrier uses a big magnet to hold the pistol to his belt buckle or something to avoid "partial concealment" =)
 
Concealed Carry in MS

First off let me start by saying that i am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. It was explained to me that in MS if the gun is in plain view even if in a holster that it is considered "CONCEALED IN PART". This holds true even if it has a string tied around it to hang fom your belt, it is considered concealed. I believe unless they have a CCP then they are in trouble.
 
Depends upon state law.

This is the summary I found regarding MS:
http://www.opencarry.org/ms.html


Mississippi is an open carry state and the state constitution appears to guarantee this right. Further, localities are generally preempted under state law from enacting local gun control ordnances that might restrict open carry. However, Miss. Code §§ 97-37-1 & § 45-9-101 operate together to ban carriage of a handgun "concealed in whole or in part" unless the carrier is inside a motor vehicle or possesses a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver. As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver is required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi.

You might want to look around opencarry.org. In states like Washington, there is nothing about open carry that is prohibited by law. In fact, open carry is specifically protected by state preemption - meaning that any government lower than state legislature cannot enforce firearm laws any more restrictive than state law.

So, in Washington, if you received a MWAG call because I was merely open carrying in a holster, I would expect nothing more than the officer to show up, see me carrying a firearm in a holster, and report back that nothing suspicious was observed. Under the conditions of merely carrying a firearm in a holster visibly in Washington, there is no probable cause to stop and ID. If I were asked to produce ID or a concealed pistol license for merely open carrying in Washington, I would politely refuse your request as that is a violation, no matter how small, of 4th amendment rights.

In fact this afternoon there is a community picnic sponsered by all of the LEO agencies in the county and I plan on attending, open carrying as I always do. I expect nothing more than friendly discussions with everyone there.
 
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I think NavyLT has it right, but I just have to add an editorial comment that the Mississippi Supreme Court decision seems wholly contradictory to the state's constitution and common sense.

Of course, being an Illinoisan I'm very familiar with laws and legal interpretations that are wholly contradictory to our state constitution and common sense. We, too, have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, except that the last part (the bearing of arms) has been rendered almost completely meaningless by statutes and ordinances that contradict our state constitution, but remain on the books.
 
Local c.o.p.s

In the midwest, larger city not pro gun, while open carry is legal by state law the explanation for standard response is that since most people are not accustomed to having someone around with a gun "on" that any person attempting open carry will be arrested for disturbing the "peace" of these weak kneed, whimpy, whiney people....

Local press made a "show" of things long time back. Had a person, with police permission, standing on a down town corner with a cowboy rig on, pistol hanging out. No one got too excited, but it was observed as "odd." Not suited to a "college town..."

As you know, you are also called a "peace officer" and responsible for the "peace" and... --so you "find a way-- In case you missed it, the "Shoot out At the O.K. Corral" i). wasn't at the O.K. Corral, but in the vacant lot next to the corral business and ii). over "gun control." Packing was forbidden in town. The cowboys had just arrived and still had guns on. Ike Clanton who was unarmed had been drinking for overnight and was either mean drunk or hung over... and not harmed in all the shooting... The cowboys could have packed up the pistols and come into town or mounted the horses and left town... Basically, the Earps "got off" because they had badges and were acting under "color of law"... Regardless of how the shooting got started...

Luck to you brother... I had a badge for 20 years. It is a can o' worms.
 
It is legal to carry an unconcealed handgun in MS as long as you have a permit (unless you can somehow levitate the firearm to not conceal it in any way). I suppose you could carry it in one of those shooting competition holsters. The entire handgun is exposed... just held in with a post inside the barrel (google image search for a 'cr speed wsm').

Most states don't have laws specifically prohibiting/allowing unconcealed carry. Here in AL there simply isn't any law prohibiting it.

Also, don't take the wording on the 'concealed' permit to be limiting in any way. Here in Alabama we have 'pistol permits'. A pistol permit is not required to own or carry a pistol, only to carry one in a vehicle or concealed. The Sheriff I obtained a pistol permit from actually has the permit say 'concealed pistol permit'. The Sheriff's cannot issue concealed pistol permits, since they don't exist... but who am I to argue.
 
The idea of charging someone with "disturbing the peace" when he/she says and does nothing to anyone is really disturbing to me.

It seems like an unlimited power to charge people with criminal acts for any reason whatsoever, when they are breaking no laws.

Townspeople don't like someone with a foot-tall purple mohawk? Arrest the perpetrator and charge him/her with disturbing the peace!

Democrats don't care for a Republican rally, or vice versa? It must be disturbing the peace!

Bible study group singing in the park? Disturbing the peace!

Mimes on the sidewalk? Disturbing the peace!

Truly scary.
 
"I dont know of a law on the books that would have allowed me charge him with anything."

So why on earth did you interrupt his dinner??? If you were responding to a complaint, you could have easily told that person that it was legal.
 
If you were responding to a complaint, you could have easily told that person that it was legal.

True.

In most places, it's frowned on by the courts, when a cop tells a citizen what to do, with no legal grounds to do so. Maybe not in Mississippi?
 
In Michigan we do not have a law that permits open carry. There is just no law that says you can't and preemption won't allow city or counties the right to change that.
 
I am happy to know of LEO's who are supporters of the Second Amendment, but I am a bit appalled that a police officer would be asking for what amounts to legal advice on a public web site. No one expects a LEO to know all the ins and outs of the law, but surely a department attorney or the local prosecutor would be a better source of that kind of information.

Jim
 
EDIT: Jim Keenan beat me to it!

I am a police officer who is an avid 2nd amendment advocate. Even though I am a cop...
With all due respect, since you are an active LEO, why are you asking for legal opinions from strangers on an Internet forum about MS law who may or may not be licensed to practice law in that state or anywhere when you can just ask someone in your department about the laws in your jurisdiction?

Why guess or take our word for it?

Scott
 
If there is no "Open carry" law in Mississippi, couldn't you charge him with displaying/carrying a firearm/Not cased?
Ohio has no "open carry law". Open carry is 100% lawful and not RAS or PC of ANYTHING.

It's a state by state matter.
 
Failure to conceal in Texas I think-- people always say "printing" can get you, but it really doesn't, nor does accidentally showing your gun (ie shirt comes up)-- mainly it is there to prevent OC in this state, or obvious "pushing the limit"-- ie trying to conceal a .44Mag in a pair of Speedos thing..

Each state is different probably though..:)
 
tju1973 said:
trying to conceal a .44Mag in a pair of Speedos thing

Hey now.... I am always trying to conceal a .44Mag in Speedos! I also carry my firearm openly in my holster, as well!

OK, maybe it really is just a .22 in the Speedos.
 
Hey now.... I am always trying to conceal a .44Mag in Speedos! I also carry my firearm openly in my holster, as well!

OK, maybe it really is just a .22 in the Speedos.
Yeah, if I carry a NAA Mini, then I am ok-- if I carry anything bigger, they know I am packing..

I apologize..not very High Road... 8*)
 
I live in Ga. You have to have a carry permit if you want to open carry or not. There are no laws against it, so its allowed if you have your permit. You don't even need a holster.
To answer your question, no, you can't be charge with concealing if you are plainly open carrying.

http://www.georgiacarry.com/county/paulding_carry/
you can check this out. the LEO's tried to charge this man with trying to conceal when he had it in his jeans with the butt sticking out. It didn't hold.
Even though there is reciprocity between the states, you do in fact have to follow the laws of each state. So, if Mississippi has any laws against open carry, then you can charge them for open carrying and whatever it entails. If not like GA, then I don't think there is anything illegal.

I myself have been stopped by an officer late at night and told to conceal even though I was legal. I didn't even have my permit checked. Idk how I feel about it.
 
I'm not going to get into the legalities, but I would like to thank the OP for openly seeking clarification and admitting that he is not sure of a legal point. The LEO's with the us and them, I'm a cop and I'm never wrong and I'm not like you I'm special John Wayne mentality are the ones that leave a bad taste in the public mouth and cause much of the friction between the public and law enforcement. It's refreshing to see an example that this does not have to be the case. Over my years in the field as a medic in the Bay Area I worked with some of the worst agencies and some of the best. The last one I worked with-Milpitas PD was an example of the Powell doctrine as it applies to law enforcement. Use force only as an absolute resort and then overwhelmingly and precisely. Diplomatic, disciplined, and very heavily armed and well trained. In 12 years I NEVER, NEVER saw any abuse of power or authority. It paid huge dividends in intel, respect, PR, and large amounts of money saved with not having to fight civil rights violation and police brutality lawsuits. And I am not a huge fan of police in general.

My hat's off to you sir. Hopefully you will retain your demeanor and continue to grace your profession and be an example for others to follow. An old cop in San Jose gave me the best rule of thumb to intervention: ALWAYS start nice, and get progressively nastier until the situation is resolved. He was the director of the MERGE team (SWAT). So obviously not a shrinking violet type. But was great at defusing situations.
 
While I'm agreeable to your stated views and beliefs, I would feel better if instead of saying:

I dont know of a law on the books that would have allowed me charge him with anything.

you would have phrased it as: "I dont know of a law on the books that would have required me to charge him with anything."

DD
 
Just to clarify something, just because a guy has a badge, does not make him an expert in ever facet of the law. I would have been glad to ask the city attorney about this however I spent a lengthy lunch break on the carpet in front of my chief while he told me that I needed to keep my questions to myself because the last inquiry I made to the city attorney, left me with a vague answer to my question and a bill for his services in my chiefs mail box. I carry around firearm permit applications with me in my patrol car so that people I talk to have no excuse for not getting a permit.
I spoke to the shift captain today and he told me that the proper charge would be a concealed weapons violation. I asked him how that was and he told me that even in a holster, it is considered concealed. I told him I didnt think that was legal and he told me that it may not be, but its the charge that they use. I have seen many people charged with offenses that didnt even exist, but they didnt know any better so they just plead guilty and paid the fine. And as to the knowledge and experience of law enforcement supervisors, just because they have a butter bar on their collar, doesnt mean that they are inteligent or well versed in the law. Try actually reading some police reports and you will find that a lot of cops cant spell, much less enforce only the actual laws that are on the books. I really appreciate all of your responses. I have yet to encounter someone open carrying other than the gentleman at the chinese restaraunt. If I ever do encounter someone open carrying, I will make sure that he is legit, and then send him on his way. Reguardless of the law, it is best to conceal because dut to the increasingly liberal state of mind that our country remains in, even a safely holstered weapon has become a reason for alarm. However most of the alarmed will pray for their neighbor to have a gun, when the sh-- hits the fan.
 
I applaud the OP for coming here to get it right. First, he's perhaps more likely to get a reasoned, researched response here than you are from the "usual channels."

His is an attitude that we ought to encourage among LEOs. Most are, like shootistpd27, thoughtful people who are trying to do the right thing. However, not all are rocket scientists or as well-intentioned as shootistpd27. When we run across an LEO who's trying to faithfully and intelligently enforce the law, we should do our best to support and assist him.
 
I told him I didnt think that was legal and he told me that it may not be, but its the charge that they use.

Thank goodness that the oath I took is to defend the Constitution against ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC! It may not be legal, but that's what we do anyway? :what: I'll have to try that line the next time a LEO stops me. Nothing against you, shootistpd27, you are obviously trying to do what is right, and you are just stuck between a rock and a hard place, but, you can see from the mentality above what we are up against.

even a safely holstered weapon has become a reason for alarm.

Although I must disagree with you on this. A safely holstered weapon is NOT a reason to be alarmed. It may alarm some people, but so what! If I had orange hair and that alarmed some people, would you say that it would be better if I didn't have orange hair? Rosa Parks' actions of sitting in the front of the bus alarmed a lot of people. Does that mean that she should not have sat in the front of the bus? I have very valid reasons for choosing to open carry vice concealed. To make a statement that people should carry concealed because it causes alarm, to me, is completely invalid.

I don't live in a country where being comfortable everywhere is a right protected by the Constitution. In order for me to have my rights, some others must compromise. In order for them to have their rights, I must compromise. But compromising means being uncomfortable with something, it doesn't mean giving up anything. They don't like the presence of my gun, then they have the right to remove themselves from the presence of my gun.
 
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