What are the advantages/disadvantages of .17hmr vs .22lr?

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So for me, would it be worth buying a .17 hmr rifle?

I'll assume you're asking for practical feedback. Obviously, if you want a .50 BMG, I'm not telling you not to buy one.:)

The cost of the .17 rimfire ammo is way too high for targets and plinking inside 100 yards IMO. The ammo makers have you over a barrel, too, with rimfire. As others have said, .223 with a reloading press makes for a better longer-range target round, and cheaper, too.

Hell, I have ground squirrel varmint hunting down the road from me, and I still just use a .22LR Marlin 60 with a scope. I've thought about getting a CZ in .17HMR, but if not for the ground squirrels, I would just get a .22LR like you have (nice gun!).

BTW is Big Shanty the city now?:D
 
The 17s are definitely hunting rounds. Every time I shoot paper I can't help but think about all those nice ballistic tips that are being wasted in that dirt berm.
 
The cost of the .17 rimfire ammo is way too high for targets and plinking inside 100 yards IMO. The ammo makers have you over a barrel, too, with rimfire. As others have said, .223 with a reloading press makes for a better longer-range target round, and cheaper, too.

I have to *generally* respectfully but strongly disagree, UNLESS you are reloading (as you indicate). I would agree if you had said 50 or 60 or maybe even 70 yards.

.17 Hummer is actually THE PERFECT plinking & fun-target-shooting round for inside 100 and even inside 125-150 yards, if shooting with factory ammo (comparing apples to apples with the .223).

.17 HMR ammo in quantity (500 at a time) costs around 25.4 cents per round. Some of the cheapest .223 rem ammo in quantity (1000 at a time) costs roughly 2 TIMES as much, at around 47.9 cents per round. [[EDIT: Wait a sec - I misspoke slightly here, IF if you're willing to go for the cheapest FMJ - cheapie Wolf FMJ is only 29 cents per round in quantity, but that's STILL *more than* what cheap .17 HMR costs, and the .17 is explosive HP ammo]].So I never understood why people say the .17 HMR is expensive to shoot - it just isn't - not at all when compared to a round with similar short-range (under 125-150 yard) trajectories, such as the .223 or .22 hornet or .221 fireball, etc. Reloading, I'd guess you ought to be able to match or best the cost of .17 HMR with .223 components plus your time (whatever that's worth). Sure, compared to .22lr, it's very expensive, but that's not really apples to apples, since it can do a lot more than .22, espec. in the wind. It's usually very windy here, and I've had numerous occasions where I've taken noobs/kids to the range under windy conditions, and the .17 Hummers slap a smile on their faces when they hit a charcoal briquet at 75 or 80 yards or more with virtually no skill, first time out, within a couple/three shots. A .22lr just would not do that - it's not as impressive to do it at 25 or 50 yards as you can with a .22lr.

Compared with .22 rimfires, the wind can blow your .22lr round off a lot past 50-60 yards, whereas the wind affects .17 HMR to a much lesser degree, since it has less than half the time to "work on" the bullet, since flight time is less than half under 125 yards. This increases practical accuracy past 50 yards give or take. Most people claim that the .17 Hummer is even slightly less affected by wind than the .22 magnum under 100 yards, due to reduced flight time. And accuracy is the main ingredient in making plinking fun (to me).

Going back to comparing to .22 cal centerfires.....Beyond cost, .17 HMR is quieter, less recoil, and generally more pleasant to shoot than .223 - great for taking newbies to the range. This is the second big factor in making plinking fun. The rifles that chamber it are also typically quite accurate, and the round itself is more inherently accurate than non-bottlenecked rimfires, in my understanding and belief.

.17 HMR is THE fun range round, IMO, right alongside the .22lr (unless you're just so dirt broke that .22 is all you can afford - and there's nothing wrong with that - believe me, I've BTDT). But let's not pretend that .223 is any less expensive to shoot, and certainly can in no way be said to be significantly less expensive.

As for shooting actual critters with it, the .17 HMR just ain't for hunting, in my view - it's for *eliminating pests*. It's the perfect short-range (to middish-range) blower-upper of turtles, crows, prairie dogs, and similar, if that's your thang. Turtles espec., since these are legitimate pests in ponds, and the hummer easily penetrates then hard outer shell, then gives you a show, then sends them on their way to the bottom. :)
 
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UNLESS you are reloading

If you're plinking with rounds that cost over a quarter per trigger pull, and you're not reloading, it's time to start. Nobody comes out of the womb with a reloading press -- or a .17HMR rifle. These are all purchasing decisions to be made.:)

The fact is, if you're plinking or target shooting, just use smaller targets at 50 yards with .22LR. Even pretty good .22LR ammo is 1/4 the price of .17HMR. The practice you get is the same. The most serious rimfire accuracy matches (ARA Benchrest) are shot with .22LR -- at tiny targets, 50 yards out.

I see no sense whatsoever in using .17HMR for high-volume paper punching.

the .17 Hummers slap a smile on their faces when they hit a charcoal briquet at 75 or 80 yards or more with virtually no skill, first time out, within a couple/three shots. A .22lr just would not do that - it's not as impressive to do it at 25 or 50 yards as you can with a .22lr.

A .22LR HP with a scope will break an egg at 50 yards, and that's perfectly impressive to a new shooter.:) Again, it's all about choosing the target.

I'm not saying that .17HMR can't be used on charcoal briquets, of course. But if you want a new shooter to grin, hand 'em a .22LR AR.:D
 
I like Them.

Hey There:
I bought 2 of the Savage 17HMRs. I also put of Cabels scopes on them and they are right on. These scopes are geared for the .17HMRs and work right.

My very first shot at an animal was a Coon at 180 yards in a filed. dumped him . The .17HMR will blow squirrels up way to much to eat. But works very well on Coytee's , Fox and such.

I have hunted with .22s for many years and still do , but this .17HMR has brought us a whole new world of varmint hunting. The cost is not a factor for me. It may be for some.
Works very nice on Crows . I did not want the Savage but must say they worked good after some smoothing of parts.
 

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It is here.

Hey :
I do not hunt nor target shoot and worry about cost. I am not being a smart butt here . I may have been blessed with the ability and money to do so when some have not. No matter , I never consider the cost. I care more about how it shoots and what I can do with it.
In SW lower Michigan we have a lot of people and houses close together.
My .223s are at times a bit much for Varmint hunting. That .17HMR just plain works.

Those tiny bullets reall get the job done yet I do not have to worry about dropping one in on a neighbor.
They do blow up meat really bad. But yet do very little damage to hides.
They for some reason have a lot of range and I mean way more than you can get from any .22 rimfire.

They can aslo be very accurate. I get 3/8" at 100 yards.
 

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+1 on all the good things said about 17HMR. All I can say to anyone is, "Go shoot one."

I did and was hooked. Got a constant smile whenever I'm out with it.
 
If you're plinking with rounds that cost over a quarter per trigger pull, and you're not reloading, it's time to start. Nobody comes out of the womb with a reloading press -- or a .17HMR rifle. These are all purchasing decisions to be made.

Yes, it's a purchasing decision, but it's one that I get to make. I was once a reloader, but I'm not any more. And I don't care to restart that endeavor. Though I can appreciate the benefits of reloading, I am at a point in my life where I'd much rather buy good factory rounds than spend my time pulling on a press. That's why I like the .17 HMR. It may be a quarter a pop, but it's the cheapest factory-loaded cartridge I know of that has premium bullets and sub-MOA accuracy at 100 yards. I like it. My quarters, my time, my decision. :)
 
I like my .17, too, but I think the price of the ammo is ridiculous. Good thing they don't make any more semi-autos for it. Unfortunately, the ammo makers do have you over a barrel on this one.
 
I think one "problem" with the .17HMR is that all the available ammo is effectively premium hunting ammo. If you compare .17HMR ammo to premium .22LR hunting or match ammo, you're only at about twice the price, maybe 2.5x.

HOWEVER: if you want to practice a lot, just generally plink at low cost, the .17HMR can't hold a candle, cost-wise, to the higher-quality bulk packs in .22LR. At a 50yd pistol range, I might as well be tacking dollar bills to the target.

.17HMR now costs what a box of factory pistol ammo used to cost back when I started reloading for handguns.

I can load a box of .357 for half the cost of the .17's. .22WMR has gotten almost as bad, without any obvious excuse.

I've stopped shooting the .17 and .22WMR regularly because it's just too much money for 90% of MY shooting. It's really disappointing to me that the prices went so high. I think a large portion of the market is being cut out. I wouldn't hesitate to take either into the field, but that's so low-volume for me.

Also, those tiny .17 bores are a bit irritating to clean and seem to foul quickly. But If you like the round it's just a minor inconvenience (or I should get something with smoother rifling).

Lest I seem too negative, let me point out that I REALLY LIKE both the .17HMR and the .22WMR as cartridges, independent of supply issues.

-Daizee
 
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minuteman1776, do you often find yourself throwing punches at the air?

I was just answering the guy's question, not questioning your right to do whatever you want with your money, including douse it with kerosene and toss a match into the pile. Whatever you want. I don't care.:)
 
I like my .17, too, but I think the price of the ammo is ridiculous.


Ridiculous compared to what? I demonstrated earlier in the thread that it's cheaper than THE cheapest kind (Wolf steel cased FMJ) of THE cheapest centerfire there is to shoot, .223, even when purchased in vast quantities with free shipping. Therefore, it's safe to assume that you don't shoot ANY centerfires, do you? Some of us DO shoot centerfires, and the .17 hummer is CHEAP by comparison, and can accomplish certain tasks and substitute for centerfires in certain (albeit limited) situations.


Unfortunately, the ammo makers do have you over a barrel on this one.

They do NOT have you over a barrel if there is competition in the marketplace. There is competition in the marketplace. CCI, Remington, Hornady. The price is a competitive one, based on, yep, competition. Over a barrel is what happens with oligarchies and monopolies - that is not the case here. If there were one or maybe even just two makers of the ammo, I might agree with you. But there are at least 3 that I know of; probably more.
 
it's safe to assume that you don't shoot ANY centerfires, do you?

I know it wasn't my post, but I will chime in... It HAS been a while since I shot a centerfire with ammo I didn't load myself.:)

And I'd much rather shoot any of the available .17HMR ammo than cheap Wolf ammo. The .17HMR available is all premium quality, and accuracy is excellent, even though it is designed as hunting ammo.

I just don't think that .22LR and .17HMR have much in common: ballistics/trajectory, action length, applications, prices are all radically different. Neither really replaces the other, and if I had to pick one rimfire rifle to get, I'd get a .22LR first, and I sure wouldn't want to get rid of it just because a friend got a .17 (per the original question).:)
 
In regards to cost he was refering to reloading .223 which is cheaper than the hmr especially over the long haul. On disadvantage to the .17 is that you can only get them in single shot, bolt guns, and henry makes a lever. There are no production .17hmr's except magnum research which is something like 700 dollars. It has nothing to do with demand, but that they have trouble making a .17 trouble free in an auto loader. I think it has a place for the occasional varmint hunter, or crow popper that does not reload, the .22 will never be replaced ammo is too cheap and there is a .22 for everyone's style and wants. For me the .17 is too light for coyotes (you have to take head shots) and it is rare to encounter anything too far away I can't take with a .22, except crows maybe and I'll shoot those with the AR15.
 
OK, my bad, but question: How much per round reloading .223? Even if reloading, even if your time is worth nothing, and even if you don't amortize the cost of the press and other gear, can you really beat 29 cents a round, when you factor in brass, bullets, and powder?
 
and the .17 hummer is CHEAP by comparison

Only if you don't reload (which yes, is a big commitment), and the .17's can't be reloaded.

Seems to me if cost is an issue, one should reload if possible (not feasible for everyone I know). And at that point the .17's start to look dodgy economically as a plinker.

Personally, my price point for .17hmr was about $10.
At this point I'd swap the .17 for a .22 hornet if I could. More performance at probably half the cost reloaded. The .22WMR covers the intermediate range, and I have a several .22LR's, none of which I'd replace with a magnum rimfire, to get back to the OP's topic.


-Daizee
 
I have to admit, every time I'm tempted to buy a .17 HMR, I look at my .22 Hornet and ask myself, "What can the .17 HMR do that my Hornet can't?" And yes, .22 Hornet handloads are cheaper than .17 HMR.
 
OK, my bad, but question: How much per round reloading .223? Even if reloading, even if your time is worth nothing, and even if you don't amortize the cost of the press and other gear, can you really beat 29 cents a round, when you factor in brass, bullets, and powder?

certainly time is worth something, but in my case, I can't make *enough* more money in my spare time to beat the $5-10/hr I make reloading. I can reload at the time of my own choosing, no bosses, schedules, no on-call etc. Some of that is rationalization, sure, but I enjoy the process in moderation, and DO enjoy the control and the obsession over load optimization. Not everybody will dig it.

The initial equipment investment is amortized across all calibers you reload for (except dies), and you're not merely stuck with the cheapest crappiest ammo - you get a MUCH better product for the time/money invested, even if you merely match the surplus price.

Brass is reloadable - one of the most expensive components. That's the point. So bullets, powder, primers are the consumables.

.22LR's are delightfully disposable. The main difference *in components* btw the .22LR and the .17 is a high-precision jacketed bullet. It seems like an unreasonable margin to pay for that one component, IMO.

-Daizee
 
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OK, not one single person here has used the word "cleaning". I really was in love with my .17. Accurate, box of 50 fits in your pocket, and ground squirrels were popping like balloons.

Then, I tried cleaning my rifle! That's when I discovered that my standard cleaning rod wouldn't go into the barrel. I bought this skinny little rod that fits the bore, but it's so wimpy that I'm afraid I'll bend it in half. Tried running a solvent patch down the barrel. I couldn't even push a really tight patch down the barrel with that wimpy rod. I ended up balling up a patch, shoving it in with a peice of wire, then pushing it through with the tip of my rod.

Now the .17 sits on the shelf while I reach for the .22. At least I can clean my .22 in about 2.2 minutes. My advice to anyone is not the buy a .17 caliber gun untill someone that already has one lets you clean it for them!
 
Therefore, it's safe to assume that you don't shoot ANY centerfires, do you? Some of us DO shoot centerfires, and the .17 hummer is CHEAP by comparison, and can accomplish certain tasks and substitute for centerfires in certain (albeit limited) situations.

Why does everybody make assumptions around here? I shoot all kinds of centerfire and .17 HMR and still think it's a rip off. A guy can't have an opinion? It's nothing more than a .22 WMR necked down to accept a smaller slug. The price should reflect that.


They do NOT have you over a barrel if there is competition in the marketplace. There is competition in the marketplace. CCI, Remington, Hornady. The price is a competitive one, based on, yep, competition. Over a barrel is what happens with oligarchies and monopolies - that is not the case here. If there were one or maybe even just two makers of the ammo, I might agree with you. But there are at least 3 that I know of; probably more.

So 3 is not an oligopoly, then?
 
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I have a very accurate Marlin 917v. Bad trigger out of the box but rifle basix fixed that. Thing shoots well. That said it is the single least used rifle I own. I have a major problem with the performance for the price. In all honesty the .17hmr rounds made today aren't "match grade". Only one brand shoots under 1.5-2MOA with my rifle, and that one will shoot from 3/4-1 MOA depending on conditions and my abilities that day. That isn't match grade accuracy at any level. Good and certainly hunting good, but not match. It isn't a match rifle either but from my experiences $12-$15 .22lr will shoot just as well, especially at shorter distances where I don't have to judge wind as much. Wind does push the .22lr around a lot, but it pushes the hmr a bit too, just not as much.

The real problem for me comes that I have given up shooting expensive rimfire ammo. The right cheap stuff has been kind to multiple rifles I own, hoovering right around 1 MOA at 25 to 50 yards, with a few more fliers than the expensive stuff.

If I want accurate I go to centerfire. I reload. As such I can't claim my experiences or opinions would be the same as a person who doesn't reload. I can make "budget" .223 rounds fairly cheap. I am still working on 55gr FMJ bought for $7/100. Primers were $30/1000. The comes the call for full power or reduced loads. Using blue dot powder you can run velocity wise, anywhere from .22lr speeds up to and a little past .22 hornet speeds. This uses very little powder and for some reason has been very accurate for me. In the case of blue dot I am looking at about $0.04 for powder. I picked up my .223 brass after the local LE was finished at the range and left. There were 500 cases for free. Again my personal situation, but it is what I am experiencing. So what does that add up to? $0.14 a round? These aren't match rounds but they do shoot decent, a little over an inch at 100 yards. Toss in a Hornady 53gr hp match bullet (bought for $15/100) and the groups shrink to 1/2"-3/4" at 100 yards, though in all honesty it shoots many more 3/4" groups than half inch. Price then goes to $0.22 a shot. Go full power loads and not blue dot and my powder cost jumps a bit to $0.06-8, depending on purchased size and load size. So now costs go to what, $0.26 a shot, yet I am shooting full powered .223 loads. So I can tune velocity and energy to anything from .22lr loads up to full power .223 loads, stay basically at or below the same accuracy I can get from the .17hmr in good conditions, and still be a little cheaper. It isn't worlds different price wise, but I truly enjoy reloading. If I didn't this argument wouldn't work in the slightest. My best shooting loads in the .223 rifles I have are a bit more expensive than this, but they have shown the ability to hold 1/2" at 100 yards through a few shooters. I have yet to see a .17hmr do that on a fairly regular basis, though I am sure someone has a rifle that will.

So my biggest problem with the .17hmr is that I don't hunt with a .22lr at ranges farther than 30 yards, so the hmr is only destroying meat at that range and I gain nothing. If I need more power or a flatter shooter I load .223 up to .22 hornet ranges. If I need more energy or a flatter shooter I load up to full .223. Being able to reload the .223 lets me bridge the gap from .22lr to .223 all while using the .223. There are bullets out there for the .223 that are just as explosive as the little vmax bullets are out of the .17hmr if that's your thing.

The .17hmr for me fits no role better than something else I have. If I were to start from scratch and had no rimfires nor any 22 caliber centerfires, as well as having not started reloading, the .17hmr would look a bit more inviting. But that isn't my case.

When I bought my .17hmr it was right at the boom. Everyone had to have one. I thought such a demand for rifles and ammo was going to drive production up and eventually drive ammo costs to the $5-$7 mark. Instead it has risen and risen. I guessed wrong on those counts and as such have a rifle I don't touch.
 
it's funny... i always hear people tell me the 17hmr is too destructive on small game animals.. Sure, if you decide to use those CCI TNT or Vmax bullets. Stick to FMJ and you should be fine.

The 17HMR is superior to the 22LR in every way possible. Just my opinion here... I always carry a box of FMJ 20grain and 17grain VMAX when out in the woods. The Vmax seems more accurate for long range shooting compare to the FMJ.

i own 2 savage 17hmr's.. awesome.. comparing a 17hmr rifle to a 22LR rifle = FAILED

check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK7Tc7X5Ueo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO_KO9Owmmg
 
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