Scotland Yard Moves to Baby Glocks to Get Women

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smhbbag1

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7149078.ece

MEMBERS of Scotland Yard’s elite bodyguard unit are being armed with smaller, lighter “baby” guns as part of a drive to attract more female officers.

The move is aimed at recruiting bodyguards with smaller hands. However, critics fear that it could hamper close protection officers who guard the Queen, David Cameron and other VIPs if they have to fend off an attack from terrorists or a lone gunman.

“It’s a disadvantage because the smaller guns have less firepower and are less accurate,” said a police firearms expert.

Supporters deny the Yard is putting political correctness before security. They say the change is part of a legitimate attempt by Metropolitan police bosses better to reflect the community.

Others believe the move underlines the explosion of a “diversity agenda” that began in the 1990s and was led by a new breed of chiefs who thought traditional policing was too male-orientated.

The trend to recruit more women was reinforced last week when David Cameron, the prime minister, was seen jogging with a female protection officer.

Historically, the standard-issue weapon of the Met’s specialist and royalty protection units is the Glock 17, a semiautomatic pistol fed by 17 rounds of ammunition.

The self-loading gun has a magazine that is “double stacked” in a zigzag formation and so requires a wide butt. The replacement weapon for women officers and those with smaller hands is believed to be the “subcompact” version, the Glock 26.

Marketed by its Austrian manufacturer as the “Baby Glock”, the gun has a single magazine with just 10 bullets and therefore requires a smaller butt.

The Glock 26’s barrel is just under 3.5in long, more than an inch shorter than the Glock 17. This makes it a less accurate weapon, particularly at longer range. In a firefight, officers using the “Baby Glock” would have to stop shooting and reload their weapon more frequently that those with the bigger handgun.

Details of the introduction of a smaller gun were disclosed by John Bunn, a senior detective in the Yard’s counter-terrorism command, to the Metropolitan Police Authority, the force’s watchdog.

Noting “considerable improvements” in the work of SO1, the specialist protection unit, Bunn wrote in a report: “A diversity forum and work strands following best Metropolitan police service practice have been established, for example changing the type of firearm used to accommodate smaller hands, changes in recruit[ment] advertising, female-only insight days and mentoring under-represented groups expressing an interest in SO1.”

Professor Peter Waddington, an expert in police firearms tactics, said the new weapons delivered less firepower but denied it was likely to be driven by political correctness.

“People with smaller hands find it difficult to grasp the butt of a regular-size self-loading pistol,” he said. “The double-stacked magazine is broader, and ... women find this more than a handful. They cannot grip the weapon properly and therefore fix their aim. So they can’t shoot ... like a big man is able to.”

Patrick Mercer, former chairman of the Commons sub-committee on counterterrorism, said: “I hope the judgment has been made on effectiveness and not on some contorted view of equality.”

Scotland Yard said it never discussed details of weapons used by its officers, but stated: “We are committed to recruiting a workforce that reflects the community we serve, and this includes specialist areas such as protection.”
 
"The self-loading gun has a magazine that is “double stacked” in a zigzag formation and so requires a wide butt. The replacement weapon for women officers and those with smaller hands is believed to be the “subcompact” version, the Glock 26.

Marketed by its Austrian manufacturer as the “Baby Glock”, the gun has a single magazine with just 10 bullets and therefore requires a smaller butt."

I don't think they know what they're talking about....
 
Um, so give the females (or guys with small hands) the Glock 26? Why does the whole department have to change?
 
Hell, don't we still have a load of Browning Hi-Powers lying around, surely? Those have a lovely grip (slimmer than a Glock at least) and still carry 13+1.
Unless they don't want anything to do with a SA pistol. :(
 
Um, so give the females (or guys with small hands) the Glock 26? Why does the whole department have to change?
Looking at uniformity and parts exchange, this would be a not so good idea. Picture a female and a male officer caught in a gunfight and either one of them is out of bullets.. It would be interesting to see how they would solve the "throw me a spare clip" request ;) .
Whilst in the process of changing the "service pistol" for the police in the Netherlands, an adjustable grip is on the requirements list for exactly the same reason. For example, a Beretta Storm has one, as well as some others. This would be a more suitable choice. Same power, same weapon, same clips. But adjustable ergonomics :)
 
Stupid, just stupid.

Plenty of women carry double stack pistols. Plenty of female officers in the U.S. use the standard service weapon issued by their departments.
 
Nothing like the government to jump on the wrong solution.

+1

Can't you have the grip reduced by a gunsmith?

Probably not over there. Where in England are they going to find a gunsmith familiar with glocks? let alone one that has cut one down? It's not like America where everyone and their brother has a glock, and there are the gunsmiths to service them. I'll bet that the powers that be are not even aware that this is an option.

This is an excellent example of pervasive gun control degrading national security.
 
I've never really looked at Glocks very closely, but aren't the 17 & 26 the same grip width? I know they're not as long, but can't a G26 accept a G17 magazine (though it will protrude below the grip)?
 
I've never really looked at Glocks very closely, but aren't the 17 & 26 the same grip width? I know they're not as long, but can't a G26 accept a G17 magazine (though it will protrude below the grip)?

Yep. G26s can accept 17 and 19 magazines, and the 19 can accept the 17 mags. The grip size is the same for all of them except for length.

That's what I thought.... this makes absolutely no sense then. If they are changing because of people with smaller hands, how does the grip length have anything to do with it? I would think that the grip width is what the issue would be there.
 
Size of bodyguard...

They cannot grip the weapon properly and therefore fix their aim. So they can’t shoot ... like a big man is able to.”
If I felt the need of a bodyguard, I'd want the biggest, burliest, most intimidating-looking person who could qualify. Isn't the idea of a bodyguard, someone who is supposed to GUARD your BODY???

That's not sexism, it's hiring the best-suited person for the job. If a 6'5", 250-pound weightlifter who can run fast, shoot well, and think on their feet, happens along, and she is a woman, so be it.
 
They say the change is part of a legitimate attempt by Metropolitan police bosses better to reflect the community.

But what if the "community" is a bunch of soft, weak, pansies? Why would you want your bodyguards to reflect that? I always thought your security team should be better than their surroundings, not on par with them.
 
They have changed to a gun that does nothing to address how a female officer's hand fits the gun but does just about everything to make it less shootable. Really, Scotland Yard... really?
 
So basically, instead of giving people with smaller hands a gun with a smaller grip circumference, they're giving them one with a shorter grip and a shorter barrel and sight radius. This way new shooters who have difficulty with the regular pistols get a gun that's even harder to shoot well.

Good job Scotland Yard. Good Job
 
If I felt the need of a bodyguard, I'd want the biggest, burliest, most intimidating-looking person who could qualify. Isn't the idea of a bodyguard, someone who is supposed to GUARD your BODY???

That's not sexism, it's hiring the best-suited person for the job. If a 6'5", 250-pound weightlifter who can run fast, shoot well, and think on their feet, happens along, and she is a woman, so be it.

Bingo.

When I see a bodyguard I want it to be intimidating.

There are plenty of large people in the Isles that will do well among both genders.

Bodyguards ideally should be rather wide so they can COVER a person against physical danger, and also skilled in subduing an attacker FAST!
 
The "firearms expert" mentioned in the article is no expert. The grip of the Glock 26 and 17 are the same thickness. The main advantage of the 26 over the 17 would be its concealability. If a woman cannot grasp the grip of a Glock 17 well enough then she won't be able to grasp the grip of a 26 well enough either. :)

Also, here we have another example of the myth that short barrel handguns are "inherently" less accurate than their longer barrel brethren. That is 98 and 44/100 percent not true. As long as a barrel is long enough to impart enough spin to a bullet to stabilize it that handgun will be as accurate as a longer barrel handgun. However, a longer barrel handgun is easier to "shoot" accurately than the shorter barrel version.
 
If Plan A is to fight off well armed terrorists with handguns of ANY type, they need a Plan B.

But if the issue is simply hand size, they need to go with a single stack not a stubbier Glock. The Sig P225 for example is perfect for small hands
 
This article shows that sexism and stereotyping are ALIVE and WELL in Europe, despite their enlightened and progressive approach to life.

"We need to attract more women... I know, we will use smaller guns. The little ladies won't be as afraid of smaller guns and will of course come flocking to fill out applications. Lord knows, THAT is what is keeping them away, the large guns.... It isn't the hostile work environment, the pay, the benefits, the dangers, the lack of interest... NO, we must use "small" guns and do no research on ergonomics and shoot ability. We cannot, nay, WILL NOT call the FBI and ask what they do to recruit, train, retain women agents. America knows NOTHING."
 
THE ARTICLE - " “It’s a disadvantage because the smaller guns have less firepower and are less accurate,” said a police firearms expert."


Isn't British police "firearms expert" an oxymoron???? :rolleyes:

L.W.
 
Maybe they should offer 2 options, or switch to another type that doesn't have the fat grips.. I don't really like glock grips either. But that might give too much freedom I suppose..
 
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