New Federal Guard Dog ammo line

News to me...going to look now.

Edit: interesting...bullets are light for calibers. I'm guessing fairly soft too.

I know this thread is a little old but I just seen the add in guns and ammo this month advertising this. The picture of an expanded round shows that the expansion happens different from a hollow point. It looks like a flat point and instead of folding outward from the tip, it looks like it is squeezed and the middle of the bullet expands outward. Looks like some type of blue filament inside the projectile too.

I would like some more info on these too if anybody has any.

it's simply repackaged expanding full metal jacket, which is made for markets where jhp's are illegal. don't waste your money if you don't live in one of these commie states.

According to Mas. Ayoob, the military has approved a version of Federals EFMJ for use in place of standard 9mm NATO FMJ.

it's simply repackaged expanding full metal jacket, which is made for markets where jhp's are illegal. don't waste your money if you don't live in one of these commie states.

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i believe NJ is the only jurisdiction in the US to ban jhp's. i could be wrong though.

According to Mas. Ayoob, the military has approved a version of Federals EFMJ for use in place of standard 9mm NATO FMJ.

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I doubt it.
Declaration 3 of the Hague convention of 1899:
"The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions."

Guard Dog is not just marketed to those who cannot purchase JHPs, it's also marketed to those who are concerned of over-penetration of building materials (IE bullet misses the target completely).

One of their promo videos explains that the bullet, unlike traditional JHPs, will expand in drywall, wood and other building materials. With a larger surface area, the bullet's energy should dissipate more quickly, reducing the chance of one of your slugs ending up in your neighbor's house.

Between that and the fact that clothing has no detrimental effect on expansion (as it cannot be plugged), I find the EFMJ indeed does had merit. I don't find it intrinsically inferior to JHPs in terms of performance, though it's obviously not the best choice for somewhat who wants to punch though intermediate barriers.

^^^this is also before you get into the merit of improved feeding from what may be a jhp picky handgun


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

So do you guys think the EFMJ's will be the more reliable expander?
I must say from the little bit I have read so far in a big city setting/self defence shoot they might be a safer bet.
But I am certainly no expert here at all.

gofastman said:

I doubt it.
Declaration 3 of the Hague convention of 1899:

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...only applies during war-time operations against "legitimate combatants"

So do you guys think the EFMJ's will be the more reliable expander?

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Some people like the Federal EFMJ since it's a "FMJ" design that is supposed to expand. While it does decrease feeding issues somewhat due to its shape, there's also a high failure rate in the neighborhood of 20% when it comes to reliable expansion. The other negative for this bullet is that it lacks sharp edges which slice though tissue and make a larger permanent cavity than a more rounded profile which tends to push tissue out of the way only to have it return to its original shape. Some pictures of Dr. Roberts results:

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http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

The performance of the Guard Dog ammo is pretty good. It holds its energy out to a hit at 25 yards - perfect for home defense. I used Federals Ballistic Calculator to check speed and energy at 25 yds. Here's what I found:

Cal_____________Wt_____Muz E_______25yd E_____25yd Spd
9mm___________105_____353________303________1140
40 S&W_________135_____432________369________1109
45 ACP_________165_____476________427_________1079
357 Sig_________125_____505________445_________1266 (P357S1)

(No GD for 357 Sig)

The GD ammo is slightly more expensive than other self defense ammo at about $26 for 20. (You don't shoot self defense ammo by the 100's unless you drive a Caddy or Mercedes.) For practice I shoot FMJ at the same weight.

(Source was web site I like to use with typical prices.)

The performance of the Guard Dog ammo is pretty good. It holds its energy out to a hit at 25 yards - perfect for home defense. I used Federals Ballistic Calculator to check speed and energy at 25 yds. Here's what I found:

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all incorrect.

i believe NJ is the only jurisdiction in the US to ban jhp's. i could be wrong though.

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JHP's aren't banned in NJ. Restricted, but not banned.

Another point to keep in mind is that the Guard Dog line is quite likely a different generation of EFMJ, using a blue polymer material and a light-for-caliber bullet weight that's simply pushed a little faster.

The original EFMJ, to my knowledge, used a typical bullet weight and a white polymer material. The XM40LP1 that I purchased in bulk have these "old style" bullets, though the two I've tested during informal Play-Do blasting expanded fine.

I'd imagine the higher velocity/lower bullet weight feature (hopefully in combination with a softer fill material) will serve to both increase the likelihood of expansion and decrease the likelihood of penetration through drywall and so forth.

JHP's aren't banned in NJ. Restricted, but not banned.

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The point is that you better not use them to defend yourself. Legally what can average Joe do with a JHP in New Jersey?

The point is that you better not use them to defend yourself. Legally what can average Joe do with a JHP in New Jersey?

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that thing being beaten might have been a horse at one point.
Seriously, the NJ expanding ammo silliness is old news, either get active and write the lawmakers or forget about it.

And EFMJ is a good thing to keep around for antiques that don't like HP ammo, I'll probably give a new twist on EFMJ a try if it turns up around me for a reasonable price, I can often find 9x19 EFMJ in 50x boxes for ~$30 at local shows, and I've found it reliable and effective on various barriers and water-jugs ... good enough to snap up when I spot it for a good price.

hat thing being beaten might have been a horse at one point.
Seriously, the NJ expanding ammo silliness is old news, either get active and write the lawmakers or forget about it.

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I don't, nor would I ever, live in NJ so I have nobody to write. Somebody simply stated it only makes sense where JHP is not allowed. Somebody else said that was only NJ, so far as they knew. Then kingpin said they aren't banned in NJ, which is why I said what I did that you quoted. Follow?

APOCALYPSE-NOW Perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten me as to why you think all these numbers are incorrect. They agree with Federal's data shown in ammo catalogs. I believe they are all for reasonable barrel lengths (5 inches).

Anyone else find it disconcerting that while terrorist's and militant groups are killing women and children and planting roadside bombs. We are still blindly following a over 100 year old treaty that was drawn up because some stuffy handlebar mustache mofo considered somthing "against the rules of civilized warfare".......... heck why don't we regress our tactics further and just wear big bright red white and blue uniforms and march at our enimies in a straight line :banghead:

oops

some stuffy handlebar mustache mofo considered somthing "against the rules of civilized warfare"..........

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that would be Col. Blimp your refering to.