Will Colt Ever Make Python Again?

Comparing a Wilson, as I've noted before, to a Python as far as people's willingness to spend money goes, is apples to cumquats.

1911s are hot, Pythons are not.
That's it in a nutshell, from the marketing angle.
From the production angle, 1911s require much less effort & knowhow to do than a Python.
Simpler fabrication, much simpler assembly & finishing.

Also as noted elsewhere, not even CNC can make a Python affordable to the masses.
Denis

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The statement was made that consumers wouldn't spend money for high priced guns. That's false. I used the 1911 as an obvious example to prove people want, and will buy, high priced guns.

Whether it's a Wilson, Korth, Beretta shotgun, Perazzi, McMillan rifle, or other expensive gun - somebody is buying high priced guns in whatever category you'd like to examine.

As I said, they would have to REDESIGN the Python to be made on CNC machines to lower the hand labor. I know - then it "wouldn't be a Python."

So you've setup a no win, circular argument that doesn't allow for a totally new approach. If people really want a Python, then they're going to have to accept that a new version is not going to be produced in the same way as the original.

That doesn't mean that a new version couldn't be styled as well, equal in quality and finish, but altered in design to allow automated production rather than hand fitting.

As far as I can tell - Ruger and Smith are selling every gun they produce regardless of what is declared as being "hot" - and that includes revolvers.

While Denis/Buckhorn is correct, I erred in not writing "Most consumers just aren't willing to pay for a quality revolver any more." instead of "
Most consumers just aren't willing to pay for quality any more."

My apologies for not being more precise.

I don't give a flying pfui if you're not precise, just be exact, dammit!
Denis

just be exact, dammit!

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(looking down...ashamed...in a quiet voice)

yes sir

CajunBass said:

If Colt was able by some miracle of modern manufacturing, manufacture, and sell a revolver, EXACTLY like the old Python, and sell it let's say, they average price of a Python today, they probably couldn't give them away.

The Python world would quickly divide into "old" and "new" Pythons. The price of the "old" ones would go further out of the roof. The "new" ones would sit on shelves. Internet forums would be full of posts telling us how the "new" ones aren't as good as the "old" ones. Magazine articles would tell us they're better. Any flaw someone found in one, would become a problem for all.

Most people would look at them and say "I'll just get a Glock."

Don't forget. They didn't sell a LOT of them back in the day. Most people looked at the price and bought a Trooper, or a Smith & Wesson...or a Taurus.

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Really

Denis

Y'know, Guill, aside from the fact that you like to argue almost as much as my wife's husband does, you're not a bad guy....

Uh...huh..So that must explain why Wilson Combat waiting time is going on 24 months for a Supergrade. Les Baer is at 24+ weeks for anything ordered from him, Pistol Dynamics is at 36+ months, I'm at 24 months for a Bob Marvel gun, Joe Chambers is quoting end of 2014 for guns ordered today...

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Oh please. I said "most". Maybe you should've read post #32 before getting your drawers bunched up. I have four custom Ruger revolvers and a $4000 Merkel 28ga. I know that most of the most highly reputed custom revolversmiths are backlogged as much as three years. I know (better than most!) that 'some' customers are willing to pay for quality because I'm one of them. You're also comparing small shop, one at a time custom guns to what is basically a semi-production gun by a large corporation. The reason all those custom makers are backlogged is because the manufacturers no longer provide what we want. The fact remains that WE who are willing to pay for quality are a small minority. That 'most' shooters would rather go buy a $400 Glock and think they're "perfection". The vast majority of revolver shooters will buy a GP-100 or S&W 686 and refuse to pay $2000 for a premium revolver. Most consumers would rather buy cheap garbage from Walmart than quality products made in the US. Otherwise, wait for it..........THE PYTHON NEVER WOULD'VE BEEN DISCONTINUED AND CHINA WOULDN'T HAVE ALL OUR MONEY!!!!!!!

This subject could go on indefinitely.
Pointless.
No matter how many people here dream about the Python returning (NOT a re-designed "Python"), and how many refuse to see the manufacturing and marketing realities involved, it remains a dream only & will not happen.
Denis

There seems to be a thread on this topic just about every other month. There won't be any Pythons (same as the old ones) made by Colt in the future.

The time of the full size service revolver is just about over. Back when practically every cop in the country was still carrying one, there was a market for the higher end revolvers. Not any more.

There is still a market for high end 1911's though.

No matter how many people here dream about the Python returning (NOT a re-designed "Python"), and how many refuse to see the manufacturing and marketing realities involved, it remains a dream only & will not happen.

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And only a fraction of those wishing for it would ever buy one. Let alone more than one. Certainly not enough to justify the costs involved. It's real easy to say "just do it" when it ain't your money.

CraigC said:

Oh please. I said "most".

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As did I, and he missed that as well.

Comparing to the tiny numbers a custom shop, even a semi-custom turn 'em out shop like Wilson's, to the number's a Colt would have to put out to make it worthwhile to them, is silly.

I love my old Colt's, Smith's etc., and I'm glad I could afford to buy them when I did. But I'm under no allusion (or delusion) that they're coming back as production items.

Even Glock in recent years cheapened up the parts in their guns. The day of top quality production guns is mainly passed.

Seems I recall that in the 1950's that Colt quit producing the SSA because it was declared out-of-date and dead. Then some upstart gun maker with big ideas, showed some onions and made his version of the single action. Seems I recall he did so well the company operated and still operates on a cash basis! That must tick off the Shylocks! Then in the 60's he had the gumption to bring out a classic-style rifle and a (gasp) single-shot rifle! What nerve! Who would shell out hard-earned sheckels for a single-shot or a plain rifle?

The American gun buying public, that's who!

CNC / MIM is the goods! Yes, the old hand-fitters are all but gone. But careful CNC / MIM Production could do it @ a price we all could afford. That, and a real stone-breaker of a QA manager to insure that each & every new gen Python that ships is right before it ships! The quality could be as good and in many ways better then before!

Anyone remember that batch of Pythons that shipped in 1981 or 1982 w/o rifling in the barrels? Doooooooooouuuuuuuuhhhhh !

Or those embarrassing mis-timed Pythons that shipped and spit lead? Not kewl!

Yes, the upfront $$$ is expensive. What isn't?

Let the guys w/ old Pythons worry about the value of their guns. That's between them, gunbroker buyers and the insurance company. Colt doesn't owe them guaranteed value retention in some 40 y/o gun.

I say to Colt: build it w/ modern methods, make it right prior to shipping, price it between Smith & Ruger (yes they can) and see if the buying public doesn't jump all over them .

build it w/ modern methods

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then it wouldn't be a python...it would be a Smith or a Taurus

Geeze, Ultra!
Give it up, it is not going to happen.

If there WERE sufficient market & if Colt DID have the ability & Colt DID feel there'd be profit in it, don't you think they would have done it by now?
YOU call Colt & tell 'em how to run their business at a loss.
I mean- what could they possibly know about it?

This has gone beyond all sense & reason.
Guill, it's all yours. I'm gone.

Denis

If it wasn't for government contracts colt would go out of business

Hey Denis...don't leave it to me!!!

CraigC said:

And only a fraction of those wishing for it would ever buy one. Let alone more than one.

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I tend to agree. One of the reasons Pythons are so desirable is because they don't make them anymore. Start makin' 'em again and that mystique goes away. Reason Colt quit making them in the first place is because they couldn't sell enough to make a profit on them. Denis summed it up well......

DPris said:

YOU call Colt & tell 'em how to run their business at a loss.
I mean- what could they possibly know about it?

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I know alot of people like to say colt is only in business for government contracts etc (hey i did hear something aboutnmarines and some colt 1911s?). Ive bought 4 (2 1911s and 2 ar15s) in the last 3 years and all are EXCELLENT firearms. While i havent seen alot of new ideas from them; if they fund someone with a good modern revolver design, give it a retro python look, and im sure colt could put it together very well


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CraigC
The difference is the Python can be chambered in anything you want as long as it's a .357Mag.

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Baloney there is plenty of room for a 41mag!!!!

Really, how many .41Mag Pythons did Colt produce???

At least 1

Buck pointed out Denis' line

YOU call Colt & tell 'em how to run their business at a loss.
I mean- what could they possibly know about it?

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It can be taken two ways.

Yes, they are in business now and making money...but they sure have made some dumb moves in the past

They could have used some advice :banghead:

Look, this is simple math. If Colt thought they could make a profit from making the Python , it would still be in production. GET OVER IT. The Python is dead. Even my mule knows when to "retire".

If Ruger can't build a Security Six profitably, how in heaven would Colt build a Python profitably?

Kleanbore said:

NO!

Before long, they will no longer be able to service them.

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Based on this year's experience with an out of tune Trooper MkIII (1979), Colt can't service them now.