OptimusPrime
Member
I'm curious about the dislike for pistol grips, why is that? I have them mounted on my HD gun and they feel great. I'm only curious, not trying to pick a fight, I would like to learn what's bad about them.
Why No Love For PGOs?
- Thread starter OptimusPrime
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PoserHoser
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Accuracy and recoil control is the biggest problem with them.
walking arsenal
Member
Oh now you've done it. Why not just kick over the biggest can of worms in the whole place? 
PGOs are a specialized type of shotgun. There are only a few niche situations where they really shine.
Some examples would be:
Compact storage
Breaching doors
Vehicle use
Use in really small apartments
If that describes you then by all means go for it. Many of those situations can be covered with a change of tactics though such as using a folding stocks or even by tucking the butt stock under the shooters arm to make the gun shorter.
Beyond those specialized areas fixed stocks are really the way to go as they make a shotgun much more accurate, controllable, and usable.
PGOs are a specialized type of shotgun. There are only a few niche situations where they really shine.
Some examples would be:
Compact storage
Breaching doors
Vehicle use
Use in really small apartments
If that describes you then by all means go for it. Many of those situations can be covered with a change of tactics though such as using a folding stocks or even by tucking the butt stock under the shooters arm to make the gun shorter.
Beyond those specialized areas fixed stocks are really the way to go as they make a shotgun much more accurate, controllable, and usable.
dogtown tom
Member
While compact, a PGO shotgun is greatly inferior to a stocked shotgun when it comes time to actually use it.
While firing from the hip sounds like a great idea it is a terrible method of aiming/pointing a firearm.
PGO's have a place as a breacher gun, but seriously...........who goes around inside their own home breaching doors? Mil/LE NEED breaching guns, for anyone else its just a gun used in a video game with little real world usefullness.
While firing from the hip sounds like a great idea it is a terrible method of aiming/pointing a firearm.
PGO's have a place as a breacher gun, but seriously...........who goes around inside their own home breaching doors? Mil/LE NEED breaching guns, for anyone else its just a gun used in a video game with little real world usefullness.
PoserHoser
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http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=185227 Great thread on the subject.
OptimusPrime
Member
I actually figure I'll be breaching bathroom doors in my house soon, with a houseful of daughters.
I will say I didn't hear these negatives before so thank you for bringing them up. I won't argue, I'm learning here.
I will say I didn't hear these negatives before so thank you for bringing them up. I won't argue, I'm learning here.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Weapon control / retention is another often overlooked aspect of it.
A BG stronger then you can easily twist a PG shotgun out of your hands and turn it on you.
Not so easily done with a stock clamped under your arm.
Also it rules out less lethal horizontal & vertical butt strokes and such.
rc
A BG stronger then you can easily twist a PG shotgun out of your hands and turn it on you.
Not so easily done with a stock clamped under your arm.
Also it rules out less lethal horizontal & vertical butt strokes and such.
rc
mljdeckard
Member
I concur with #2, #4, and #7 entirely.
A friend of mine has one in 20 ga, and even that one is a beast to run effectively.
A friend of mine has one in 20 ga, and even that one is a beast to run effectively.
LeonCarr
Member
PGOs do not allow you to exploit the full capability of the shotgun. Accurate shooting of shot or slugs past about 10 yards is near impossible.
Breaching doors in a military or law enforcement situation in which a compact shotgun is needed to be carried in addition to your primary is the only legitimate situation IMO/IME a PGO shotgun would be warranted.
Keep a stock on it.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Breaching doors in a military or law enforcement situation in which a compact shotgun is needed to be carried in addition to your primary is the only legitimate situation IMO/IME a PGO shotgun would be warranted.
Keep a stock on it.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
oneounceload
member
Because they are simply, a gimmick. They have poor handling, harsh recoil, no practical use for the average citizen in any day-to-day scenario.
Learn how to run the gun - the regular stocked shotgun and you will soon see why they get panned...................
Learn how to run the gun - the regular stocked shotgun and you will soon see why they get panned...................
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
I have one PGO shotgun that works...
(Img from http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/high-standard-10a-10b-e.html)
Haven't been happy with any of the others I've tried.
(Img from http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/high-standard-10a-10b-e.html)
Haven't been happy with any of the others I've tried.
oneounceload
member
You must be RH, 'çause that would suck for those of us who are LH
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Our late shotgun mentor Dave McCracken's canonical thread on the subject: PG Only Shotguns and Hip Shooting 101
Then, if you need more input, the grand-daddy thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=544181
And the grand-momma thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=501891
See also:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=687128
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=619528
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=614629
I figure there's enough info in there to write a graduate level treatise on the subject.
(Note, Dave's challenge was never even accepted, let alone successfully met.)Dave McCracken said:
Then, if you need more input, the grand-daddy thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=544181
And the grand-momma thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=501891
See also:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=687128
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=619528
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=614629
I figure there's enough info in there to write a graduate level treatise on the subject.
Last edited:
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
You must be RH, 'çause that would suck for those of us who are LH
Oh yes.
The text that can't be made out in the picture, molded into the clamshell on the right side of the receiver, says something like WARNING: DO NOT FIRE FROM LEFT SHOULDER.
Oh yes.
The text that can't be made out in the picture, molded into the clamshell on the right side of the receiver, says something like WARNING: DO NOT FIRE FROM LEFT SHOULDER.
CajunBass
Member
I've always thought the PGO shotgun plays into the "you don't need to aim a shotgun" school of thought. Just point it and spray and pray. Sorry but I've missed too many deer with buckshot, including one inside ten yards, to believe that in any way, shape or form.
Then there is the matter of recoil. Years ago, my son, no doubt influenced by some video game or the other, purchased a shotgun that came with both regular and pistol grip. He immediately put the pistol grip on it. He later told me he fired it twice with low brass birdshot rounds. He then put the regular stock on it, and threw the PG away. He said "That thing kicked." No kidding? Whodathunkit?
Then there is the matter of recoil. Years ago, my son, no doubt influenced by some video game or the other, purchased a shotgun that came with both regular and pistol grip. He immediately put the pistol grip on it. He later told me he fired it twice with low brass birdshot rounds. He then put the regular stock on it, and threw the PG away. He said "That thing kicked." No kidding? Whodathunkit?
dogtown tom
Member
But whats pictured is not a "PGO"........it most definitely HAS been designed to be fired from the shoulder as it has a shoulder stock.
MCgunner
Member
My coach gun is compact and I can actually hit with it.
You say that your pistol grip shotgun feels great but have you ever shot it? Take it to the range and try to hit a target and you will see why people don't like them.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
But whats pictured is not a "PGO"
Which was sort of the point ...
But the 10A/10B works very well when fired from the right hand with the shoulder rest turned 90 degrees and cupped in the elbow. It also leaves an interesting 'hickey' in the bend of your elbow from the hole where the shoulder rest bolts on to the back of the receiver though.
There's an old picture of inventor Al Crouch holding his Remington Model 58 - based prototype out of the window of a squad car with one hand, prepared to fire it. I don't see that picture online anywhere though.
Which was sort of the point ...
But the 10A/10B works very well when fired from the right hand with the shoulder rest turned 90 degrees and cupped in the elbow. It also leaves an interesting 'hickey' in the bend of your elbow from the hole where the shoulder rest bolts on to the back of the receiver though.
There's an old picture of inventor Al Crouch holding his Remington Model 58 - based prototype out of the window of a squad car with one hand, prepared to fire it. I don't see that picture online anywhere though.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Everything I have to say on this subject can be found in the archives.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.
lemaymiami
Member
One other small point about PGO equipped poppers.... If you think the PGO is a bad idea wait until the first time you try to use one of those nice folding metal stocks that some pistol grip shotguns come equipped with (particularly the one that came from Remington marked "law enforcement use only"). On my Department you could spot anyone trying to use one of the things by the blood on their face (or the nice bandaids that came after you got cleaned up). Some ideas just don't work very well at all in real life. Learning about them the hard way isn't a very good idea at all....
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Dave had made almost the exact same comment in his "101" thread.
mstreddy
Member
Fred,
Now that's something -- Do you actually own the 10A? I own the 10B. I gotta get a picture up sometime. It actually is a great shotgun, lots of fun, but way before it's time.
Now that's something -- Do you actually own the 10A? I own the 10B. I gotta get a picture up sometime. It actually is a great shotgun, lots of fun, but way before it's time.
PBR Streetgang
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- Aug 15, 2011
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- 413
This was a older post I made about using pistol grip shotguns.
The original Wilson Witness Protection shotgun was made to be fired pushed out in front and at eye level looking down the barrel, like you were shooting a stocked gun sans the stock. They were a handful to hang onto but not impossible. The birds head grip didn't beat you up as bad as the pistol grips now supplied with shotguns.
These guns came out about the same time as compact subguns with folding stocks which were more controllable and lost favor quickly to subguns like the Uzi and later H&K MP5-k.
The original Wilson Witness Protection shotgun was made to be fired pushed out in front and at eye level looking down the barrel, like you were shooting a stocked gun sans the stock. They were a handful to hang onto but not impossible. The birds head grip didn't beat you up as bad as the pistol grips now supplied with shotguns.
These guns came out about the same time as compact subguns with folding stocks which were more controllable and lost favor quickly to subguns like the Uzi and later H&K MP5-k.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Do you actually own the 10A?
Yes, this is my second one. I foolishly sold the first one in a fit of insanity years ago, but I came across another one and brought it home.
Yes, this is my second one. I foolishly sold the first one in a fit of insanity years ago, but I came across another one and brought it home.
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