New dual mode trigger system BATF approved !!

I've seen trap shotguns with a "release" trigger. It doesn't fire on the pull stroke, just when you let off. They can be a bit disconcerting if you are not used to them.

Honestly, as an RSO your idea scares me a might.

+1 on a release trigger.
They were hot in trap shooting at one time.

But it still only fires once per trigger pull.

Call me a skeptic if you must.

But somehow, I just can't imagine the ATF signing off on one that fires twice per trigger pull!!

That is a select fire trigger, no matter how you slice it.

rc

So what does that approval mean? That you could sell it without NFA issues?

Not sure exactly how I feel about this sort of product from a practical point of view. But it's at least fun for the range.

i'd like to see a vid with a close up of the trigger action. in the .22 upper vid, i can't see any movement in the trigger finger. could be just me though.

roklok said:

They did sign off on it, I have the letter in my safe. I would not go posting this if they hadn't, believe me !

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That is a very cool idea and I congratulate you on making your idea a reality.

I bet you could keep up a pretty steady rate of aimed fire with that trigger set-up.


Now go make one for my FALs and you'll get your own "Real men of genius" song, and I'll buy the beers while we listen to it...

Paintball guns have used the 'fire on pull, fire on release' system for years to skirt the 'no full auto' policy most organized parks have.

Really (REALLY) surprised the ATF went for that, since it's one pull of the trigger, AND IT'S SUBSEQUENT RELEASE that fires two shots, rather than two pulls of the trigger.

Certainly has a place, if it's legal.

Larry

If it were fully functional, completely legal, and not absurdly priced like those crummy bump-fire stocks, I'd buy a few.

I see a bright future for yourself. This would be popular like the slidefire, only a bit more practical. I would definitely find some investors, because this will be a great product to sell. I think it would go across the board to different breeds of shooters as opposed to the slidefire, which had more of a novelty effect, cool, but it wasnt exactly cheap to own or shoot. if you could market this in the $50 range, I could see high volumes of sales, especially in the AR fan club.

Interesting, and much better than the slidefire.

Very interesting.

You wouldn't happen to be the guy behind Tactical Fire Control (http://249development.us/johnsann/Tactical_Fire_Control_wp/) would you?

Apparently they have an AR trigger that does something similar, but I believe their trigger is reset by the bolt carrier moving forward. Then you can just ride the trigger with your finger and get a pseudo-full auto fire mode. It has the folks on ar15.com all abuzz:http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/627922_Tactical_Fire_Control.html&page=1

They're trying to organize a group buy for the thing, but apparently TacCon is a small company and still trying to get their act together. The only info we've gotten so far is their MSRP is $500, so if you can beat that, you may have a winner on your hands.

I would definitely be interested in one of these triggers once you get them to market (or hell, PM me a price on a prototype and I might buy one sooner and give you my thoughts on any areas that could be improved ). I've been thinking about this kind of FCG since I found out about the ATF Approved Mini 14 trigger groups that do roughly the same thing (minus the select fire capability) but I don't have the engineering background to be able to produce something like this myself, so I'm glad you've been able to do it.

What is your expected/target MSRP? If you can get it to a price that is comparable to other aftermarket triggers, I think you'll have a good chance of attracting a following.

And just to clarify, you have a tech branch ruling, and not just an opinion letter, correct? Any chance we could see the letter and/or diagrams and pics of the trigger group (if you already have the patent in process)?

Make a kit for an AK and I'm interested!

But somehow, I just can't imagine the ATF signing off on one that fires twice per trigger pull

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It's once per trigger action if I remember correctly.

I've heard of a legal kit that did this for the Mini-14, years ago. I read about it on this forum, in fact. "Turbo" triggers like this scare me because it forces you to fire that second shot. It's a major safety issue. If you're shooting at the range and there's an emergency (like some dolt walking forward of the safety line) and they call ceasefire when you've got your finger back, what then? You cannot put your gun down without firing an extra shot. They also double the chance of a tragedy during an accidental or negligent discharge. And let's not forget the legal nightmare of using such a gun in self-defense.

They may be legal per the ATF, but they probably shouldn't be, purely for safety reasons. They make it so you cannot stop shooting at the precise moment you want to. When using this trigger system, you are NOT fully in control of your firearm. You control whether and when you make that first shot, but you are committed to making the second shot, safe or not. It may be a legal product, but it's a dangerous product, one I would not even consider using.

Warden wolf brings up a point.

If you are shooting, and stop with the trigger held back can you flip the selector back to semi and have the trigger reset normally? (i.e. not fire) Or are you stuck fireing that second round once the trigger is pulled?

You can easily tell that it is the personal manipulating it that is making it shoot that fast....the rate of fire is very sporadic. I don't mean that these parts don't work...they do....it's just that it requires more human input to get the result. The TFC appears to reset the trigger automatically and then I assume it's a light trigger pull that you can set off by keeping rearward pressure on the trigger, essentially bump firing. This one still requires human input to fire each shot. The trigger has to be pressed to fire one shot and then released to fire one shot...that's both human input, not mechanically controlled. I find the designs people come up with interesting and I always check the stuff out...but I would never consider buying any of it myself.

I've heard of a legal kit that did this for the Mini-14, years ago. I read about it on this forum, in fact. "Turbo" triggers like this scare me because it forces you to fire that second shot. It's a major safety issue. If you're shooting at the range and there's an emergency (like some dolt walking forward of the safety line) and they call ceasefire when you've got your finger back, what then? You cannot put your gun down without firing an extra shot.

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I'm pretty sure that in the double shot mode that you aren't taking the time to carefully fire rounds. I'm pretty sure you are letting it rip so that second round is off before your brain processes "cease fire!"

I'm also sure that unchambering a round will be the best bet either way while holding the trigger back.

And let's not forget the legal nightmare of using such a gun in self-defense

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That's about as bright as using a slide fire stock for home defense. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

They may be legal per the ATF, but they probably shouldn't be, purely for safety reasons. They make it so you cannot stop shooting at the precise moment you want to. When using this trigger system, you are NOT fully in control of your firearm.

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Avoiding the argument about the government protecting people from themselves...
I think the trigger group is better thought of as more of a "2 round burst" trigger as opposed to "pull, BANG.........release, BANG". With that in mind, if the second shot is uncalled for, the first shot probably was too.

And if you're in a position where you don't want to fire the second shot, drop the mag and clear the chamber while you have the trigger depressed. That way when you release it, you're just dry firing on an empty chamber.

What the heck are you supposed to do if you only want to fire one shot?

I, for one, think it's fascinating. USPSA, 3-gun matches, etc., better get on the stick and outlaw these things before they get started!

They may be legal, functional, and entertaining, but if I was a gun store owner I would never invite the liability of selling a rifle equipped with one.

What the heck are you supposed to do if you only want to fire one shot?

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Switch to single shot mode?