store keeping gun for unpaid repair?

Stuff happens. The guy may have just lost his job, gotten a divorce, found out his wife is pregnant, etc. and can no longer afford to pay for the repairs.

I wouldn't buy it, and I don't think I'd want to do business with that gunsmith if I'm understanding the story right.
Something sounds fishy to me, but its hard to say how fishy without more details.
Did the former owner agree to sell the gun, sounds like at a loss to the owner, simply to recover the cost of the bluing job?
Did the shop owner basically repo a gun they had never owned because the owner disagreed with the cost of the reblue job?

I'd have to know the former owners side of the story before I was comfortable with that purchase

I bought a motorcycle that had a mechanics lien. Owned a equipment dealership. I'd have people never come back for some stuff

A gunsmith putting a lien on property isn't really that uncommon or out of sorts.

If the gun is for sale in their shop, it should be in their bound book and a 4473 should be filled out when you purchase it. That should take care of any questions with the police if the original owner reports it stolen. Of course, if you have questions you can always write down the serial number and contact your local police department to have them verify if the gun has been reported stolen... which I'm guessing not since the police would know where to go get it.

It is quite possible the store is on the up and up and isn't comfortable giving you every detail concerning someone else's transaction.

.02

I'm not sure if I'm reading this story correctly, but here are a few details I've learned working for an FFL as an apprentice gunsmith. Once the gun is at the shop being worked on, the FFL signs it into his Acquisition and Disposition book. It is "In the FFL's name" as you called it. It is then in the legal possession of the FFL. If a customer doesn't pay, it's really pretty common for a gunsmith to keep the gun. The shop I work for gives more than plenty of notice to the customer, and gives the customer 30 days unless other arrangements are made. Also, shops can't always quote a price on services. Many have a starting fee to check the gun in, and then have fees for every hour, parts, special services, etc. It's impossible to know how much it will cost to work on a gun, because things get complicated quickly. If the gun is for sale at an FFL, I would imagine that they took care of the legal side of it. It's in their A&D book and they legally acquired it.

Not a whole lot different then a gun in a pawn shop the owner never came back for.

After a specified length of time, the gun becomes theirs to legally sell.

rc

Your buddies are busy second guessing without any facts. I've turned in many guns for repairs or modifications, usually with only a starting price or estimate to work with, but with the full understanding that it may not be the final price.

Just like any other property, if you can't pay for the work done, compensation is still customary for the business.

I should add (as others already have), that the gun is in fact "signed over" to the gun shop if you take it in for repairs/mods. If the original owner comes back in to pick it up, there is no form 4473 to fill out. However, if someone else (your dad, friend, wife, etc.) comes to pick it up, a 4473 DOES have to be filled out in that case.

It doesn't really sound shady to me. Sometimes people simply don't pay. For example, have you ever heard the term "Mechanic's Lien"?

If the dealer is an FFL I'd be pretty confident that the paperwork trail is going to be accurate and legal for the sale of this gun.

A lot of people do business based on estimates, with the understanding that actual repairs could cost more. I usually require a business to call me if repairs are going to be more than an initial estimate, simply because I don't want to effectively write a blank check to someone (but, many others don't do business this way).

Sounds perfectly normal to me

I'm surprised the original owner doesn't go back and buy it for $200 since that's only $50 more than the original quote....unless the gun isn't worth $200.

My brother had a 72 Chevelle with a 350 LT1 engine...

I wonder if the machine shop in my home town still has his headers on the shelf

ohihunter2014 said:

what didn't sit right with me was word for word--he thought it was going to be $150 but ended up being $300 he didn't want to pay it so released it to them now its on the shelf for $200 so that means $100 price cut on them.

yeah it sounded like to me that the guy didn't want to pay it so they kept it for payment. sounds like they repossessed the gun.

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That doesn't sound right.
So the cost of the work to the gun was $300...but the store is selling the gun for $200 to recover "costs"?
As a third party, are they consigning the gun for the gunsmith?
Is the retail store making any money for selling the gun on behalf of the gunsmith?
Did the gunsmith outright sell the gun to the retail store?
If so, what did he sell the gun to the retail store? Most retail stores I know wouldn't buy a gun for $200 only to sell it for $200, especially if it's a big box store...so logic suggests he sold the gun for less than $200 to the box store, or expects to make less than $200 in the sale to account for consignment fees.
The owner was willing to pay $150, but not $300...would he pay the $200 now being asked for the gun?
Why wouldn't the gunsmith accept the $150 for the work right then and there if he is is just going to have to wait for the gun to sell elsewhere for pretty much the same amount?

Just doesn't make sense to me.
might be some bad blood between the smith and customer, that would explain a lot

Of course, if you have questions you can always write down the serial number and contact your local police department to have them verify if the gun has been reported stolen.

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2nd time this week in two different venues that I have seen this stated...

Not sure what it is like in Texas, but here in VT no LEO is going (or have the time) to run serial numbers on a gun not involved in a crime...

coloradokevin said:

A lot of people do business based on estimates, with the understanding that actual repairs could cost more. I usually require a business to call me if repairs are going to be more than an initial estimate, simply because I don't want to effectively write a blank check to someone (but, many others don't do business this way).

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I always do this, and it sounds like the original owner should have as well, what with the actual cost winding up double the estimate.

and time this week in two different venues that I have seen this stated...

Not sure what it is like in Texas, but here in VT no LEO is going (or have the time) to run serial numbers on a gun not involved in a crime...

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Well, okay. My advice is not valid in VT. Everyone outside of VT, it's still an option.

If the work was done and not paid for it sounds like an artisan lean. If a store sells to you it should go to the background check system.

ohihunter2014 said:

silicosys4

the gunsmith works for the store. I was told by a sales guy it was sent to him at another store to be fixed, when I called him he said no it was sent out to another stores smith to be reblued, etc.

the owner said this is what I want send it off and when I got back to his original store that's when he got hit with the damage.

I think what more gets me is the $100 loss almost like they just want rid of it for some reason.

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Businesses are there to make money, and if the smith works for the store instead of for himself, I'm sure the store is charging more for the work than they are paying the smith. So they are probably breaking even on the work.

It may be that the gun just isn't worth the $300 and the customer was rebluing it for sentimental reasons more than to retain or restore value, I never saw a model or manufacturer mentioned.

It still is shady to me to quote one price, not notify the customer of extra charges, then deliver a bill thats double the estimate. Somebody should learn how to give better estimates, at the very least, or not give them at all so the customer knows that they might be walking into a much bigger project than was first thought.

It is actually illegal to do that in the Automotive industry. If I get an estimate, and come back to pick up my car with a bill bigger than something like 10% or 20% or better over the estimate and was never notified, and I never authorized the extra charges, I am legally not accountable for those extra charges.

Case in point, one time I sent a car in for a timing belt, and while there the mechanic blew the fuel pump fuse. They didn't tell me a single thing, just that the work "took a little longer to get into the schedule than expected", and when I came back they tried to tack on an extra 12 hours worth of labor at $80/hr because they "had to rewire my entire fuel pump wiring" (took me 4 hours to rewire after they screwed up the wiring harness), instead of changing the dang fuse.
I looked at the bill, and since I had already paid everything EXCEPT the 12 hours of labor when I had dropped the car off, told them it was illegal to more than double my estimate and perform the work without my authorization and that their mechanic is an idiot, got in my car, and drove away.

If the gunsmithing industry was as big as the automotive repair industry and had as many examples of inflated actual costs as compared to estimates, I have no doubt this would be the case with gunsmithing as well.

Guess the guy should have asked more questions, and this is one reason I try to pay the quoted price up front and tell whoever that's doing whatever to NOTIFY me if anything unexpected comes up and we will go from there.
Might just be that I'd decide to take my item to someone else to finish the job if the first guy doesn't have his stuff together or I think he's trying to inflate the bill.

I certainly would avoid that gunsmith if he can't give a good estimate but will try anyways, especially if he's giving an estimate for a job he's handing off to someone else. No wonder there was no communication to the guns original owner, the smith the owner talked to didn't have a clue how the job was progressing or how much it was costing, and the smith doing the actual work probably didn't have a clue who the owner of the gun was to call them and tell them what was going on.
No thanks.

Aw heck, just give me directions to the store.

The cost to the customer would have been $300 as I read it. The customer opted not to pick up the gun at that cost. That $300 is not necessarily what the shop had invested in the gun.

When I took in a gun for repair I issued a slip signed by me and the customer. From the date they were notified the repair was complete they had 30 days to pick up their gun. I sat on many repairs 6 months or more. I sat on an M1 Garand with a replaced op rod and a few other parts for over a year. The cost was $100 (customer cost). I finally told the guy he either comes and gets it or consider it gone. He finally showed.

Ron

Not sure what it is like in Texas, but here in VT no LEO is going (or have the time) to run serial numbers on a gun not involved in a crime...

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Do you not know a single person who works in LE. Surely there is a neighbor, church member or someone you know personally who works in the profession. Just give them the SN along with the manufacturer and model of gun. They can log onto any computer and give you the results in about 1 minute.

The only caveat is that many want the gun in hand when they run the number. If it comes up as stolen, and they can't take possession of it they could be in trouble.

I have several friends who could do it, but usually use a game warden friend. He has told me that if it turns up stolen he'll be in my driveway in 10 minutes to get it. Others I've asked said they'd only do it if I brought the gun to them so it would be in their hand when they put in the number.

hmm, interesting,
I have called my local PD and had them run several serial numbers for me,
I told them I was interested in purchasing a gun from a private buyer and had taken the serial number down, and could they please run it so I know its not stolen?
They have never turned me down.
Luckily I have never had anything come back as stolen, so I don't know where the conversation would go from there.

I think what more gets me is the $100 loss almost like they just want rid of it for some reason.

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It's not a $100 loss for the store; their loss is the labor and materials they put into the gunsmithing job without recompense, and those bills have already been paid. Regardless of the value of that labor and materials, if they price it at $300 and it doesn't sell, they get $0. If they price it at $200 and it sells, they get $200.

Selling at any price nets you more than if you don't sell at all. If the gun isn't selling right away at $200, I doubt it'd sell for $300.