Can out of staters possess firearms or ammo in Illinois, without a carry license?

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Warp said:
...


If you have something that says out of state residents must have a carry license to merely posses a firearm, just post it already
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Lol... c'mon Warp.

They don't write laws saying 'you can do this'.

They write laws saying it's illegal to do xyz EXCEPT.
I believe you know this.

The Except is the FOID card or out of state license to carry, and the 7 Panel Judge unanimously confirmed that


It may not be written the way you want it but the info there.


I agree with the majority's conclusion that the statutes must be read together and that the exception contained in the FOID Card Act for nonresidents licensed to carry a gun in their home state must be read into the AUUW statute. - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-supreme-court/1562742.html#sthash.shNcuOZk.dpuf
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Count 1 was reversed because that state didn't prove it.

Count 2 was reversed because they found that the charge didn't apply because it hinged on count 1 and that was reversed. They didn't allow a conviction to a lessor version of count 2 because the exception allowing an out of state license to carry to substitute for the FOID.


It seems pretty clear. But I admit I could be wrong.

After me asking I think 4 times now, you still won't even answer if you've read it.

If you decide to read it and provide references, as I have, that supports a contrary view, I'd be interested.

But untl then, there not much point to continue.
 
Yes, I read it.

I think everybody else is in agreement here

Neo-Luddite said:
FYI---this was a court ruling from FIVE YEARS AGO that predates the passage of CCW in Illinois---I don't see that it has any relevance to the situation that now exists in Illinois.


To the best of my tortured understanding as a life-long Illinois resident and gun nut:
Out-of-staters who lawfully posses normal title 1 firearms may do so in Illinois if they are visiting here provided they comply with laws regarding cased and unloaded transport or may have a loaded CCW weapon in their vehicle if permitted by their home state. The 'gears' of the very new CCW laws are not 100% meshing with the older state gun laws and will lead to some minor confusion. If you are from out-of-state you will not be able to touch a firearm at a store and may very well be told you cannot buy ammo by the clerk---the former situation is factually true and the latter a common misconception that leads to arguments that end is disappointment for the visitor. So if you visit Illinois please bring enough ammo for your needs. And remember ~ Dragon's Breath shotshells, bolo / grape shot, flechette rounds & AP ammo (apart from such as exempted by ATF as sporting like m2AP .30/06 and 5.56 m855/ss109 NATO) are illegal here for no particular reason. But take heart--hollow points, tracer and incendiary rounds are still a-ok! Enjoy your visit!
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il.bill said:
The following post is NOT LEGAL ADVICE.


From the information I have, both the state criminal code and the Dept. of Natural Resources wildlife code must be followed - in essence, unloaded, not easily accessible, and fully encased. Your out-of-state driver's license is used for ID to purchase and possess ammunition.

See the two attachments for more details.


From the Illinois State Police brochure:

IF A NON-RESIDENT IS VISITING ILLINOIS,
HUNTING, OR TRAVELING THROUGH WITH
A FIREARM, HOW DO THEY LEGALLY
TRANSPORT IT?
Non-residents must be legally eligible to possess
or acquire fi rearms and ammunition. Non residents
are not required to have an Illinois FOID Card. It is
recommended that in order to be in compliance with all
statutes, non-residents transport all fi rearms:
1. broken down in a non-functioning state; or
2. not immediately accessible; or
3. unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying
box, shipping box, or other container.


From the Illinois Department of Natural Resources brochure:

If a non-resident is coming to Illinois to hunt
and would like to bring their firearm, how
do they legally transport it?
Non-residents must comply with the gun case law as
described above. Additionally, the firearm must not
be immediately accessible or must be broken down in
a non-functioning state
Click to expand...

Nanook said:
You just need your out of state driver's license to possess a gun in IL. As in attending a shooting event in IL, buying ammo in IL, etc.

As mentioned the new IL CCL law allows people from other states with a license from those states to carry in their cars. But not outside, since IL doesn't recognize any other state's CCL.
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slumlord44 said:
They can posses a gun in Illinois. They cannot carry a loaded gun in Illinois. Illinois does not recognize other states concealed carry permits.
Click to expand...

Nanook said:
You just need your out of state driver's license to possess a gun in IL. As in attending a shooting event in IL, buying ammo in IL, etc.

As mentioned the new IL CCL law allows people from other states with a license from those states to carry in their cars. But not outside, since IL doesn't recognize any other state's CCL.
Click to expand...
 
I have traveled through IL several times over the years on family cross country road trips. I have NY, PA, UT and FL ccw permits. Historically I unload my pistol at the IN/IL border and then lock it in the gun safe under my seat. I then reload my pistol once I'm out of IL. I never stop in IL, I just drive through. This summer I may need to stop in IL overnight.

It looks like now I can keep my pistol loaded while in the car and when in the hotel room, but so I need to unload it between the car and hotel room?
 
So, just to be concrete, because Warp started this thread due to something I posted....

If a person who has no CHL or equivalent document, comes from California (where the state does issue such licences), with the intent to stop in the state (so we aren't talking about FOPA), but with no intent to do any of the specifically listed exceptions to the FOID requirements for non-residents (hunting, target or competitive shooting, etc)....

What are the consensus positions on the following acts:

1) Drive to an in-state destination with a firearm unloaded in the trunk (not in a case, not disassembled, just in the trunk).

2) Have an unloaded firarm in a duffel bag in the trunk of ypur car, stop at a hotel, and carry the duffel bag into a hotel room

3) Load the firearm once they are in their hotel room.


As I read the opinions, decisions, and laws that I have seen cited on this thread and elsewhere, the first scenario would be illegal due to lack of a case. Put the gun in a case and you appear safe. The second scenario seems like it would be legal, provided a duffel bag is considered a case under Illinois law. (Note: this is a change in my position from what I previously thought, based on info in this thread.)

The third I'm not clear on.

The person isn't engaged, or planning to engage in, any of activities for which a FOID exception is granted. They aren't "someone who has a permit to have a gun from their home state" so the IlSC ruling doesn't seem to bear. Seems like they could be arrested and charged with possession of a firearm and ammunition without a FOID (or equivalent).
 
Ed Ames said:
So, just to be concrete, because Warp started this thread due to something I posted....

If a person who has no CHL or equivalent document, comes from California (where the state does issue such licences), with the intent to stop in the state (so we aren't talking about FOPA), but with no intent to do any of the specifically listed exceptions to the FOID requirements for non-residents (hunting, target or competitive shooting, etc)....

What are the consensus positions on the following acts:

1) Drive to an in-state destination with a firearm unloaded in the trunk (not in a case, not disassembled, just in the trunk).

2) Have an unloaded firarm in a duffel bag in the trunk of ypur car, stop at a hotel, and carry the duffel bag into a hotel room

3) Load the firearm once they are in their hotel room.


As I read the opinions, decisions, and laws that I have seen cited on this thread and elsewhere, the first scenario would be illegal due to lack of a case. Put the gun in a case and you appear safe. The second scenario seems like it would be legal, provided a duffel bag is considered a case under Illinois law. (Note: this is a change in my position from what I previously thought, based on info in this thread.)

The third I'm not clear on.

The person isn't engaged, or planning to engage in, any of activities for which a FOID exception is granted. They aren't "someone who has a permit to have a gun from their home state" so the IlSC ruling doesn't seem to bear. Seems like they could be arrested and charged with possession of a firearm and ammunition without a FOID (or equivalent).
Click to expand...


Well.... now, I'm going to post info that contradicts the other info I posted.

This lawyer stuff is trickier than it looks :eek:;)


This is from a much more recent case but from a lower court than the other info came from.

If you became a test case, I don't know whether or not either of these past cases would be allowed to be presented in your case.

Question 3 is pretty darn closely related to this case below.


Overly summarizing the case getting to the point below, The Plaintiff Mishaga challenged the constitutionality of FOID because of how it applied to her being an out of state resident. The Plaintiff lost.

In this case, the State is the Defendant. The Plaintiff is Mishaga.


The 3 sentences below say:
(Its really interesting to me that the State #1 as part of their argument because it weakens their law, IMO)
1) The State said the just by being eligible for a license in your home state is enough for Exception 10 to apply to the Plaintiff (Exception 10 is that an out of state license is acceptable for a FOID substitute) and......


2) .... that Mishaga home state doesn't have a FOID type card and therefore is is 'exempt from FOID Act liability under Exception 10' .....and that ....

3) .... 'risk of prosecution is too remote where the FOID Act clearly fails to criminalize her planned course of conduct' of 'to keep a functional firearm for self-defense while staying in her Illinois friends' home'.


So, because of those reasons, the FOID Act didn't violate her Constitutional Rights and the FOID Act should stand.

In THIS CASE, the State said that out of state people don't even need a license, they only need to be eligible to get one in their home state, for Exception 10 to apply.


Again, I don't know if these past cases would be allowed to be relevant in another future case.


http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/...gavSchmitzILFOIDCARDNOTNEEDBYNONRESIDENTS.pdf

Therefore, the more sensible reading of "licensed," in light of plain meaning, context, legislative purpose, and legislative history, is, as Defendants argue, that a nonresident is "licensed" to possess firearms by his resident state if he is legally eligible to do so, with or without a license document evidencing his eligibility. Accordingly, Mishaga, as a nonresident whose resident state, Ohio, tacitly authorizes her possession of firearms because she is not otherwise disqualified, is exempt from FOID Act liability under Exception 10's "licensed or registered" requirement. Mishaga, therefore, does not face a credible threat of prosecution under the FOID Act if and when she chooses to exercise her Second Amendment right to keep a functional firearm for self-defense while staying in her Illinois friends' home, because her risk of prosecution is too remote where the FOID Act clearly fails to criminalize her planned course of conduct.
Click to expand...
 
As an Illinois resident I try to keep up on Illinois firearms law. As I understand it currently, an out of state resident may possess firearms and ammunition, if the firearm is unloaded and cased, etc.

If an out of stater wishes to possess a loaded firearm, he may do so provided:

1) He and his firearm remain in a vehicle, and
2) He is legal to carry a loaded firearm in his home state, as evidenced by that state's CCL or lack of requirement for CCL.

-- OR --

1) He has a valid nonresident Illinois CCL. I've yet to hear of any being issued.
 
Unloaded and in a case is also a tricky one. It appears simple but according to the owner of the range that I go to once a week, a loaded magazine even not in the case with the gun but in the same car trunk with said gun equals loaded gun.
Being that he's in his 80's and is was very adamant about it before I got my CCL, I am inclined to believe him. "Never load your magazines even if you have them in a separate range bag"
Another thing was that an Indiana CCL was illegal after the IL CCL act was passed because my understanding is since they don't have to go to class, it is not comparable to Illinois. Then it was NO out of state permits were acceptable. There is no reciprocity.
Like I have stated earlier really nobody clearly understands the laws. There are different interpretations from different people. The were written quickly because of a ruling from SCOTUS.
My advice is error on the side of caution because if you get arrested because a LEO has an interpretation that you have done something illegal, you will have to hire an attorney who specializes in IL gun laws.
That won't be cheap but beats going to prison over a vaguely written set of laws.
 
Like I have stated earlier really nobody clearly understands the laws. There are different interpretations from different people. The were written quickly because of a ruling from SCOTUS.
Click to expand...

Actually it was a ruling from the 7th Circuit. It never got to SCOTUS because the state would have lost and established precedent.
 
wnycollector said:
I have traveled through IL several times over the years on family cross country road trips. I have NY, PA, UT and FL ccw permits. Historically I unload my pistol at the IN/IL border and then lock it in the gun safe under my seat. I then reload my pistol once I'm out of IL. I never stop in IL, I just drive through. This summer I may need to stop in IL overnight.

It looks like now I can keep my pistol loaded while in the car and when in the hotel room, but so I need to unload it between the car and hotel room?
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I did last summer when going to my daughter's wedding in Chicago.
 
Blackbeard you are correct. The case was Moore v. Madigan heard by the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. The problem was the law was sloppily written and the Mayor of Chicago, The Illinois Attorney General and the Governor stated that they might appeal to SCOTUS. They never did. This does not change that many different people interpret the IL gun laws differently.
Being that when you stay at a hotel, that legally becomes your residence. IMO you are allowed a loaded gun but that is just an opinion and not a fact.
As for "keep my pistol loaded while in the car" that is VERY debatable.
(430 ILCS 66/40)
Sec. 40. Non-resident license applications.
The issue is sections (a-d) are strictly about "Non-resident license applications"
Then you have (e) which is still part of 430 ILCS 66/40 aka Sec. 40.
(e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:
(1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law;
(2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence, as evidenced by the possession of a concealed carry license or permit issued by his or her state of residence, if applicable; and
(3) is not in possession of a license under this Act.
If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended, he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance with subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act.
This makes it seem that indeed you can carry in your car IF you have a CCL in your state IF APPLICAPABLE yet IL was the last state to pass a CCL act.
Their are many laws that overlap and quite a few LEOs that still think there is no reciprocity. The IL State Police has taken down the Firearm Concealed Carry Act part of their website.
Regardless the laws are written sloppily, many overlap and which is the actual one that pertains?
Cook County has a 10 round limit on magazine capacity. Chicago is in Cook County. You stay in a hotel in Chicago and the maid sees your gun, freaks and the CPD shows up at your room. Your gun has a 17 round magazine. Do you get arrested?
Like I wrote error on the side of caution because the last place you want to see the inside of is Cook County Jail at 2700 S California Ave.
It has horrible Google reviews.
 
Plus here is another example of how the laws are written poorly.
Sec. 40. Non-resident license applications.
The issue is sections (a-d) are strictly about "Non-resident license applications"
The issue is to get a IL CCL part of the requirement is obtaining a FOID card.
Which is something only residents of Illinois can obtain.
This came up with a close friend who moved to Minnesota 16 years ago. He has a Minnesota permit-to-carry. He was born and raised in Illinois. His brother in law is a almost retired Illinois State Police Officer. He asked him is his Minnesota permit valid in Illinois. The answer from a ISP who will retire next year is "I don't think so and I'm not sure". Hmm?
His brother in law is a pretty smart guy and even he doesn't know.
While it seems I am beating a dead horse with this one once again I am saying the laws are extremely vague. They are so vague that they overlap and even the ones written strictly for concealed carry basically are oxymoronic.
Reading over this topic I see a FFL holder in IL that posted what he thinks the laws are. He posted "NO, unloaded, not easily accessible, and fully encased."
I tend to think for right now that is the safest bet. Just remember that according to the owner of a gun shop and shooting range that a loaded magazine in the same proximity makes a semi auto legally loaded.
Illinois will eventually get it's ducks in a row but for now I wouldn't be too sure about what you read or how it's interpreted.
Nothing ruins a vacation like a ride in a squad car.
As for the court ruling that started all of this, the actual incident happened in 2005. The appeals ruling was in 2011. Had the CPD not tacked on the FOID charge IMO the whole thing would have been moot. Leonard Holmes in 2005 would have been guilty of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon. That is once again an opinion and not a fact.
The reason for all of this is I do not want an honest citizen become a test case in Illinois. It's not just me bashing the way the laws are written even though it may seem that way.
 
Man there is A LOT of worry going on here.....Yes, there will be 'growing pains' regarding CCW in IL. Yes, some LEO's won't have a clue. But remember...THIS ISN'T NY, NJ, MS, CALI or DC. The bright line isn't going to be so bright, but really this will come up more often with store or range owners than with law enforcement. And of course, with people who *KNOW* the law and want to tell you what's what....

So keep your own council, know the law, act according to your own judgment.
 
Neo-Luddite said:
Man there is A LOT of worry going on here.....Yes, there will be 'growing pains' regarding CCW in IL. Yes, some LEO's won't have a clue. But remember...THIS ISN'T NY, NJ, MS, CALI or DC. The bright line isn't going to be so bright, but really this will come up more often with store or range owners than with law enforcement. And of course, with people who *KNOW* the law and want to tell you what's what....

So keep your own council, know the law, act according to your own judgment.
Click to expand...

It only has to come up once, ever, to ruin somebody's life.

And Chicago...yeah I'd rather take my chances in a lot of areas of CA than in Chicago when it comes to, well, a lot of things
 
Actually a lot of LEOs don't *KNOW* the law. If a Illinois State Trooper is unsure then how accurate are local PDs going to be? Basically to sum it all up it would really stink to get arrested thinking that you actually knew the law. Then you have an arrest record, have to hire an attorney, go to court and you very well could be found guilty. Now you are no longer Johnny Honest Citizen.
I do not claim to know the laws, I have my opinions on them. You know what they say about opinions.
 
IL Guns said:
Blackbeard you are correct. The case was Moore v. Madigan heard by the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. The problem was the law was sloppily written and the Mayor of Chicago, The Illinois Attorney General and the Governor stated that they might appeal to SCOTUS. They never did. This does not change that many different people interpret the IL gun laws differently.

Being that when you stay at a hotel, that legally becomes your residence. IMO you are allowed a loaded gun but that is just an opinion and not a fact.

As for "keep my pistol loaded while in the car" that is VERY debatable.

(430 ILCS 66/40)

Sec. 40. Non-resident license applications.

The issue is sections (a-d) are strictly about "Non-resident license applications"

Then you have (e) which is still part of 430 ILCS 66/40 aka Sec. 40.

(e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:

(1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law;

(2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence, as evidenced by the possession of a concealed carry license or permit issued by his or her state of residence, if applicable; and

(3) is not in possession of a license under this Act.

If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended, he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance with subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act.

This makes it seem that indeed you can carry in your car IF you have a CCL in your state IF APPLICAPABLE yet IL was the last state to pass a CCL act.

Their are many laws that overlap and quite a few LEOs that still think there is no reciprocity. The IL State Police has taken down the Firearm Concealed Carry Act part of their website.

Regardless the laws are written sloppily, many overlap and which is the actual one that pertains?

Cook County has a 10 round limit on magazine capacity. Chicago is in Cook County. You stay in a hotel in Chicago and the maid sees your gun, freaks and the CPD shows up at your room. Your gun has a 17 round magazine. Do you get arrested?

Like I wrote error on the side of caution because the last place you want to see the inside of is Cook County Jail at 2700 S California Ave.

It has horrible Google reviews.
Click to expand...


If you have a concealed carry permit from your own state there is absolutely no debate in it whatsoever, you are legally permitted to carry a loaded handgun in your vehicle.
 
IL Guns said:
Plus here is another example of how the laws are written poorly.

Sec. 40. Non-resident license applications.

The issue is sections (a-d) are strictly about "Non-resident license applications"

The issue is to get a IL CCL part of the requirement is obtaining a FOID card.

Which is something only residents of Illinois can obtain.

This came up with a close friend who moved to Minnesota 16 years ago. He has a Minnesota permit-to-carry. He was born and raised in Illinois. His brother in law is a almost retired Illinois State Police Officer. He asked him is his Minnesota permit valid in Illinois. The answer from a ISP who will retire next year is "I don't think so and I'm not sure". Hmm?

His brother in law is a pretty smart guy and even he doesn't know.

While it seems I am beating a dead horse with this one once again I am saying the laws are extremely vague. They are so vague that they overlap and even the ones written strictly for concealed carry basically are oxymoronic.

Reading over this topic I see a FFL holder in IL that posted what he thinks the laws are. He posted "NO, unloaded, not easily accessible, and fully encased."

I tend to think for right now that is the safest bet. Just remember that according to the owner of a gun shop and shooting range that a loaded magazine in the same proximity makes a semi auto legally loaded.

Illinois will eventually get it's ducks in a row but for now I wouldn't be too sure about what you read or how it's interpreted.

Nothing ruins a vacation like a ride in a squad car.

As for the court ruling that started all of this, the actual incident happened in 2005. The appeals ruling was in 2011. Had the CPD not tacked on the FOID charge IMO the whole thing would have been moot. Leonard Holmes in 2005 would have been guilty of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon. That is once again an opinion and not a fact.

The reason for all of this is I do not want an honest citizen become a test case in Illinois. It's not just me bashing the way the laws are written even though it may seem that way.
Click to expand...


Why do you post false information in a forum for people to read? Is it just to stoke fear among people? Taking legal advice from police officers and FFLs is poor practice.
 
What is exactly the "false" information?
If a police officer arrests you, that is not "legal advice". It's an arrest.
FFLs deal with the ISP and the BATFE all the time.
Read post #7. il.bill holds a FFL in IL.
Is he wrong? If so can you LEGALLY prove it?
 
Last edited:
You can also check reciprocity on the Illinois Carry forums.
Click to expand...
OK that is States that will honor Illinois CCLs but not IL honoring theirs.
That is not "reciprocity". It is a one way street.
Is there an attorney on this forum that is familiar with the IL laws?
 
Can out of staters possess firearms or ammo in Illinois, without a carry lice...

IL Guns said:
What is exactly the "false" information?

If a police officer arrests you, that is not "legal advice". It's an arrest.

FFLs deal with the ISP and the BATFE all the time.

Read post #7. il.bill holds a FFL in IL.

Is he wrong? If so can you LEGALLY prove it?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's quite easy to prove that an individual with an out of state carry permit does not need to travel with his gun unloaded, locked, etc. You should probably research that before you repost it as proof of how knowledgeable FFL dealers are.

Posing questions that fly directly in the face of IL law is misinformation.

How about your statements regarding out of state CCL and FOID? It is very clear that an out if state resident applying for a CCL doesn't require a FOID. That's how those that have out of state CCLs received them.

IL law is bad enough, we don't need the waters muddied even further.
 
^^^ Seriously.... what ljnowell said! The sky isn't falling in Illinois on out-of-state gun owners or anyone else. Some FFL's know and understand a great deal of the the law, so do some police officers....but if you need legal advice beyond your own capacity hire a lawyer licensed to practice in the State of Illinois.
 
You haven't proven anything. All you have done is post an opinion that you THINK is fact that could get innocent people into big trouble.
Insulting FFL holders and LEOs is not a legitimate argument.
FFLs and LEOs are going to be way more informed as to what the laws are compared to you. I am not trying post misinformation, just keep innocent people from getting into trouble with the legal system.

I have always said that these are my OPINIONS and you, who is obviously NOT an attorney, post laws that are subject to interpretation as FACT.
Read (430 ILCS 66/1) particularly Sec. 40 again is all I can tell you.
It is really subject to interpretation because of the wording.
Read post #32, he agrees with you and yet "1) He has a valid nonresident Illinois CCL. I've yet to hear of any being issued." which directly contradicts what you wrote.

I don't need "need legal advice beyond your own capacity", I know what I can and cannot do. The issue is what someone from out of state can or cannot do.
I'm finished with this and my advice to people from out of state is TO BE CAREFUL! Regardless of how individuals interpret the law, it's going to come down to how a Police Officer interprets them.

The sky isn't falling on you or me but some poor person from another State could be in serious trouble because you are posting "facts" that may or may not be the law.

That's on you. I'm done with this.
 
IL Guns said:
You haven't proven anything. All you have done is post an opinion that you THINK is fact that could get innocent people into big trouble.

Insulting FFL holders and LEOs is not a legitimate argument.

FFLs and LEOs are going to be way more informed as to what the laws are compared to you. I am not trying post misinformation, just keep innocent people from getting into trouble with the legal system.



I have always said that these are my OPINIONS and you, who is obviously NOT an attorney, post laws that are subject to interpretation as FACT.

Read (430 ILCS 66/1) particularly Sec. 40 again is all I can tell you.

It is really subject to interpretation because of the wording.

Read post #32, he agrees with you and yet "1) He has a valid nonresident Illinois CCL. I've yet to hear of any being issued." which directly contradicts what you wrote.



I don't need "need legal advice beyond your own capacity", I know what I can and cannot do. The issue is what someone from out of state can or cannot do.

I'm finished with this and my advice to people from out of state is TO BE CAREFUL! Regardless of how individuals interpret the law, it's going to come down to how a Police Officer interprets them.



The sky isn't falling on you or me but some poor person from another State could be in serious trouble because you are posting "facts" that may or may not be the law.



That's on you. I'm done with this.
Click to expand...


What, exactly, contradicts what I wrote? You have not shown at all where anything I posted is false.

You, however, have posted heresay and opinion from people who clearly don't know what they are talking about.

Making accusations that I "insulted FFLs and LEO" is preposterous. Educate yourself on the law you spread rumors in, then come back and try again.
 
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