Smart Guns: We want the .Gov to disable them.

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Seems that would certainly violate 2-A. i know I don't want it. I'm sure the secrete service doesn't want it. Pretty sure Pelosi wants us to have it...but not her guards.

If the anti gunner group wants it we should let the D.C. police show how good it is for a year or two. Then we'll see how far it goes.

Mark
 
Trying to read that technomumbojumbo is like listening to a description of the Turbo Encabulator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXW0bx_Ooq4

Basically the article wants to have a kind of radio deactivation code for smart guns in sensitive areas. It kinda forgets the fact that there are over 300 million 'dumb' guns in circulation in the US, guns that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
 
A lot of threads start with just a link. If anything that issue is the poster never even explains what the link discusses. That does constitute a form of drive-by.

In this case we have been discussing smart guns in other threads and I have made the suggestion that smart gun technology isn't focused on who can safely use it, but more on disabling it. An LEO wearing a transmitter would shut down your gun regardless of whether you needed to assist or not. The concept is to consider any other civilian gun bearer as a threat to law and order.

Given that there are over 330 million other guns in America, the more likely contention is that if the tech exists and it's the only legal firearm you can carry, the turnover in how many guns would be affected on the street is much higher. Since most of us don't carry long arms, those are already eliminated anyway, and the typical carry piece is usually a newer model handgun from the last ten years production. People buy guns as much for the leading edge technical improvements as for having the latest style, too, and with calibers getting a different scrutiny than in the past, we move into bores not considered previously. In the last 40 years we've transitioned nationally from .38 caliber revolvers to 9mm pistols, a major change, and the CCW carrier frequently carries .380 pistols.

Given typical sales a ten year change in carry could easily affect 25 to 50% of the guns carried by the public, if the State didn't mandate smart guns only for CCW. Should that happen, and it's speculative, some state like NJ could only allow a smart gun that would be disabled by the nearby transmitter. And those transmitters may be allowed to broadcast wherever a property owner sets one up, including retail, entertainment, government or whatever.

You and I would be forced to only have a nearly useless gun on us wherever we went about our daily business, where now we can at least expect it to go bang if we needed it. The anti gunners aren't playing for a quick win here, they never have. They play long term - grab an incremental step here, or there. M855 today, all military calibers tomorrow. A few smart guns today, all of the guns in the future. Because we keep buying New! instead of using the same old same old, we act in a way to help them further their ends. They use our consumerism against us.

You can't buy a new car without pollution controls, safety bumpers or even plain rims - TPMS is required. A modern house must have a larger electrical service with plugs every 6 feet whether you plan to use them or not. Code advances every few years, a new regulation is added, we need to do something about all those guns.

So, give cops a transmitter that turns them off. Cheap existing tech in the face of cell phones with GPS and Bluetooth.

Your gun charged up? Should be as it's the only way your red dot will work, and that has the chip to disable the interactive firing pin directly below it on the slide. I'm a 62 year old geezer and I can think that up. The Army wants that kind of tech to incorporate IFF on the battlefield at the soldier level.

Don't hide your head in the sand, or you won't understand what happened when you return to reality.
 
I have long maintained that the push to mandate "smart guns" will allow the .gov to disable them at will. Whether the folks who are pushing it realize this or not, I don't know. What I do know is that if I were the .gov, I'd already have people working on being ready and able to shut off "smart guns."
 
I don't know of any smart gun technology that Ive seen discussed anyway that would have the ability to do that whether anyone wanted to turn them off remotely or not. The electrical power requirements would be too great. It can be done to be sure but all the measures Ive seen suggested use near field communication protocol which is good for 2-8 inches max like you'll find in an RFID card reader.
 
A similar situation is presented in the Mike Judge speculative documentary....err...comedy Idiocracy (the most terrifying comedy you'll ever see)

The main character is attempting to escape police pursuit with his "lawyer" in the lawyer's small electric car, while traveling past a vending machine, it scans his identity tattoo on his arm, a voice comes over the car's stereo saying that the fugitive has been identified, please wait for the police to incarcerate the passenger, the car is then remotely deactivated and disabled

"Get this thing moving!!"
"Can't! They turned off my battery!"
 
Make the cops use them FIRST.

Gee, I wonder what will happen the first time "Anonymous" hacks all of the "smart guns" of the NYPD, LAPD and the Chicago PD and turns them off...
 
yugorpk said:
The electrical power requirements would be too great.

Not if you move the power requirement off the gun. Broadcast a shutdown signal through existing infrastructure, like cell towers. Make the gun a passive listener that simply goes into sleep mode when it hears the signal and needs a hard reboot to start functioning again. Your smart gun uses no more energy than it would listening for the handshake signal for usage.
 
Faraday cages, jammers, chip removal, ... What else could a kid with internet access be able to do to stop a signal from get†ing to the chip in one of these?

The more tech is applied the more it can be subject to countermeasures.
 
Faraday cages, jammers, chip removal, ... What else could a kid with internet access be able to do to stop a signal from get†ing to the chip in one of these?

The more tech is applied the more it can be subject to countermeasures.

Exactly. For the mere price of $18 one can become invisible to the tracking device commonly used in many work vehicles by employers.
 
Exactly. For the mere price of $18 one can become invisible to the tracking device commonly used in many work vehicles by employers.

I know it's slightly off topic, but could you elaborate on how that works?

I thank my lucky stars that I don't live in a anti-gun state, and I will do my level best to never reside in one. I can't imagine a place like Arizona or New Hampshire ever requiring smart gun technology for CCW.
 
The main character is attempting to escape police pursuit with his "lawyer" in the lawyer's small electric car, while traveling past a vending machine, it scans his identity tattoo on his arm, a voice comes over the car's stereo saying that the fugitive has been identified, please wait for the police to incarcerate the passenger, the car is then remotely deactivated and disabled
"Costco has determined your bank account balance is 0$. Costco has determined you are at risk of committing robbery soon. Firearm registered to one 'Sure, Not' has been deactivated."

"Speculative" documentary nothin'; we're about to elect the grandfather of President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho, fer cryin' out loud.

I stand by my previous comments that broad opposition to all electronics technology in firearms (even inside the fire control group) is the position of stubborn ignorance of the potential benefits of using electrons to 'do stuff' more effectively than mechanical linkages. Hoplo-Luddites. Technophobes. Iron bigots (;))

TCB
 
Faraday cages, jammers, chip removal, ... What else could a kid with internet access be able to do to stop a signal from get†ing to the chip in one of these?

The more tech is applied the more it can be subject to countermeasures.
Back in the day I knew a guy who really hated catalytic converters. He removed the catalytic converter from his car, opened it, removed all the insides, put the exterior back together and replaced it so if LE ever looked under the hood everything would appear perfectly normal.
 
Wouldn't tin foil wrapped around the electronic area be as effective as a tin foil beany????
Faraday cages, jammers, chip removal, ... What else could a kid with internet access be able to do to stop a signal from get†ing to the chip in one of these?

The more tech is applied the more it can be subject to countermeasures.
It could be possible that the gun would be designed to "phone home" in order to check a license key and allow it to work. Disconnecting the gun from outside RF might could actually break it.

Much of software today is going with the subscription model. You pay your monthly fee, you get to use it, otherwise it goes dead.

I could see smart guns eventually using this model. Manufactures love the constant stream of revenue. .Gov loves the control. It's all about control isn't it?
 
Back in the day I knew a guy who really hated catalytic converters. He removed the catalytic converter from his car, opened it, removed all the insides, put the exterior back together and replaced it so if LE ever looked under the hood everything would appear perfectly normal.
Common mod in locales that don't test for emissions.

It could be possible that the gun would be designed to "phone home" in order to check a license key and allow it to work
Hey, so does any number of software available on Pirate Bay, come to think of it! :evil:

Why 'hack' it, when you can 'crack' it (open, I mean, and strip out all the solenoids/etc that do the disabling)? Not like the cops will be 'detecting' jack-shoot at that point to come after people for, that they aren't already.

Just more security theatre, so we can claim 'gun safe zones' and their moral high ground, while doing nothing to stop the (same) people disobeying the (same) laws they have since antiquity to do harm to others.

TCB
 
I could see smart guns eventually using this model. Manufactures love the constant stream of revenue. .Gov loves the control. It's all about control isn't it?

In the case of business, it's about 'rent-seeking.' Very common in the software industry, software companies having largely developed all software technologies of any value already, additional development being almost strictly incremental. I think the same could be said about government, also, to be honest, which typically passes the last 'necessary' law shortly after its founding and has serves primarily to impede free commerce & exercise otherwise.

TCB
 
I know it's slightly off topic, but could you elaborate on how that works?


It's a GPS jammer. Anyone I've seen for sale online says they aren't allowed to be sold in the US. Most look at that just like radar detectors in Virginia :laugh:

The whole "smart gun rental technology" is a very scary proposition. To many things in life are already overly laden w/ technology. An automobile is the prime example of this. I want nothing to do w/ any technology that enables or disables a firearm remotely. I take magazine disconnects out because they don't belong there. Smart gun technology is just another non existent "safety" fix.
 
MO requires all cars 94 up to have all the original emissions controls to pass inspection, and localities that test negatively for air quality are then targeted and periodic sniff testing imposed on those residents. The cars from pre EPA requirements can be included or not by various state laws.

The EPA has also recently be exposed with a new regulation under consideration that NO car sold in the future can be converted to a race car, ever. With that typical government mindset, how smart guns are handled will be equally onerous.

As for hacking, I'm sympathetic, be advised that hacking is an illegal activity and advocating for it is contrary to the rules of the forum. Interpretation is usually left to a moderator, I perceive a significant lack of defining a level playing field in that regard.

I've been assigned an infraction for suggesting that something was possible - not directly advocating it - and I see much clearer language here. Words to the effect, "how can we defeat a signal the government is authorized to send disabling our gun and keep it in action illegally?"

At the very least, choices have consequences and disabling the smart device means a random inspection of your firearm on the street will be cause for detention and prosecution. If body scanning reveals you are carrying and the chip doesn't ping back an operational OK then you are in trouble. That scan could occur in your car, a mall entrance, or just out on the street. Our money has those strips and magnetometers are used in airports, courthouses, etc. They could be expanded to many public places.

After all, if it saves one life . . .
 
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