AR-10 platforms question

Really depends on what the shooter wants or prefers or sometimes has a budget for. The DPMS is likely the more popular design with more manufacturers offering it today. My AR10 is over twenty years old, the selection was limited. I have an Armalite AR10T which I customized and I like it. Also, as a side note the naming convention AR is Armalite Rifle and an AR 10 is Armalite. For example the LR 308 is a DPMS gun, the M&P 10 is a Smith and Wesson gun and the list goes on. Today everyone seems to make a flavor. Actually Cerberus owns Bushmaster, DPMS, and Remington Arms so all three have one parent company. Bushmaster refers to their rifle as the XM10.

Keep in mind that parts comparability is not as friendly as the AR 15 family. Different manufacturers make parts unique to their rifles.

Finally an AR 10 type rifle can run from inexpensive to wow, I can't believe it cost that much. For many shoppers the cost is a determining factor. You may want to look at this listing.

Ron

Well, first, avoid the johnny-come-lately-junk builds.

Second, I'd recommend avoiding any 7.62/.308 AR that doesn't accept SR-25-pattern mags, like the common and affordable MagPuls. If it accepts only factory proprietary mags, you're in for more expense than it's worth, and resale will be difficult if you ever want to unload it.

Third, except for the SCAR-17, be advised that the AR-platform in 30-cal gets heavy as h*ll very quickly.

Good luck.

I would go with the original Bushmaster, now known as Windham Weaponry, instead of the current version of Bushmaster. I went back to the store to buy a Windham AR10 last month but the one they had was sold the day before so I came home with an Armalite AR10 which I have been happy with.

i think the best .308 AR ive seen so far took the advantages of both the armalite and DPMS patterns.. it used AR-15 fire control group parts and the magpul magazines, but used the armalite AR-10 upper receiver assembly

DPMS is pretty much the de facto standard at present, at least as far as magazines go. Even Armalite now offers DPMS/Pmag pattern lowers. Having said that, many of use consider the gen II Armalite mags the best available. Something to think about.

I had an AR-10 carbine that I traded away on a deal too good to pass up. When funds came available to rebuild, I went DPMS pattern because I could build exactly what I wanted for a whole lot less than reconfiguring an Armalite AR-10.

I bought the DPMS G2 hunter 7 3/4 lbs unloaded,without optics. Shoots great ,accurate. Great hog or bench gun. JMHO and experience.

I also have a dpms gll shoots great , scope 20 rd mag & sling , no heavier than my bolt 7 mm but much shorter & maneuverable in house or thickets

I have limited experience with AR-10s. I had a custom-built DPMS AP-4. Great rifle.

I have a S&W, M&P-10, that puts 19 rounds into a ragged hole at 50 yards. I know, only 50 yards, not 100 yards. But, that was with rounds 31-50--a very hot barrel. It fires reliably, accurately. We will be testing it at distances in March.

As I always have said, what "feels right (best)". Shoulder several, and go with which feels right.

JMHO,

Geno

I've been very impressed with the LMT MWS, especially the match barrel versions. Very reliable, very accurate, and they take pmags and AR-15 fire control groups no problem.

The monolithic top rail is great for optics, and if you decide you want to swap calibers it's a new barrel and 10 minutes with a wrench and you're there.

About 20 years ago I had an SR25 and picked up one of the new early Armalite AR10A4's (think Clinton era) ... after waiting nearly 9 months I was totally disappointed in just about everything about it; finish, accuracy and lack of customer service but judging from reviews they've gotten better. I ended up selling them both to fund another project and it didn't take long before I regretted letting the SR25 go.

7-8 years ago I picked up a DPMS LR-308 24"stainless fluted, it's good but not SR-25 good I upgraded the trigger, grip, stock, buffer but it still wasn't there and finally ended up putting it back to stock. Then I started shopping for another SR-25 but I get sidetracked easily and it took a while to find one but the GunBroker gods eventually smiled on me ... and I was happy for a while.

Never being satisfied, a. couple years ago picked up a SiG 716 DMR when they first came out, and for my money, this is where I'd start if I had it to start over again, it's nearly as smooth, accurate and has as good a fit & finish as the SR ...

I've still got all 3 and the SiG will be the last to go ... It's threaded 18" barrel and ambidextrous controls just edge out the Stoner, plus the 1/10 barrel makes it less ammo sensitive; the SR-25 has a 1/11.25 and is designed for Federal 168 GMM and to be honest I'm afraid to even thread the barrel for fear of effecting accuracy as it's 20 years old and still shoots clover leafs at 200 yards ... The SiG isn't quite there but it's exactly the way I'd build it, which is why I went with the DMR instead of one of the les expensive offerings.

If weight is a concern, the only 2 good options become DPMS G2 and S&W MP10. A DPMS G2 AP4 weighs less than 7.5lbs.

As for "platforms", I wouldnt go into the AR10 market worried about that. Even with the standard old DPMS pattern, parts compatibility can be pretty crappy.

A few points from experience. Not a bashing post.

My father has a genII dpms. It works flawlessly, but I do not recommend it.
It has the proprietary handicap. Anything in the bcg area, you are stuck with dpms due to the length. I was the lucky recipient of 2 nice raptor charging handles because neither ar15 or ar10 versions fit.
His x products drum only works in his rifle.

My ar10 does not function properly. (upper purchased used). I'm not particularly faulting armalite. I have used many of their parts in other rifles without issue. I have been pleased with their customer service, and meeting them at the nra show. Still sorting that one out. I haven't had any hands on shooting any other armalite rifle.

2 dpms lar308 myself.
One is a 24" 308 only. Works perfectly, just cant run 7.62x51 in it.

One is a 16" sportical (or oracle, I forget which) that runs perfectly with either ammo.

I am equally accurate with either one with my skills ( or lack thereof).

The 16" dpms is more of my go to "ar10" as it is comfortable for me to carry and I don't have lots of doo dads attached to it.


My fathers is so heavy, that his next accessories need to be wheels and trailer hitch.

Some dpms mags don't feed well, but all my p mags have worked.

My first 308 was a DPMS Panther TAC20. It shoots and functions great. Parts are easily found and I like the DPMS patterned guns.

Everything he said about the LMT sounds righteous to me.

This is the Gold Standard, you will not find an "AR10" with better build quality or accuracy.

I love how there are rounds loaded in the magazine both directions. That about sums up the HK view of the customer

Its an HK tradition to have rounds backwards in ad shots.....for whatever reason....

It must be really good if it can cycle those!

If you want an AR-10 pattern rifle that really works all the time you have very few choices, and all of them are expensive.

1.) HK MR7.62A1, it is priced as if it were made of solid gold, and ironically enough weighs about what you'd expect a rifle made of gold to weigh (9.8lbs).

2.) Knights Armament Company (KAC) SR25, depending on the model these can be fairly heavy, to not so bad. The E2 ACC model only weighs 8.4lbs. It is however crazy expensive just like the HK, but even more expensive.

3.) Daniel Defense DD5 V1, weight 8.3lbs, gaining a good reputation for working right and made by a company with a good reputation for making guns that run. This is a new entry though so be aware of your potential beta tester status. Downside..... yep still expensive, but not as bad as the other two.

Your other option is to buy a SCAR 17S, actually cheaper than the HK or KAC. Does use proprietary magazines though.

If you want an AR-10 pattern rifle that really works all the time you have very few choices, and all of them are expensive. * * *

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Well, you left two obvious ones off that list:

* LaRue 7.62 OBR.

* GAP-10.

Both rifles are extremely accurate and very expensive, ... but you're also getting a lot of "30-cal AR" for the money spent. Wait times aren't so fun. Also, both take the aforementioned affordable SR-25 type mags (MagPuls).

In fairness, the chamber on the GAP-10 is so tight that some owners have reported the rifle as being ammo-finicky with anything but factory match loads (default is the FGMM 168-grainers) or precisely-crafted handloads made only on small base dies. Happily, the reviews also indicate that GAP will correct such issues and will also tune the gas system and recoil set-up to a customer's specified load.

On the OBR, I've watched the video of the LR shooting done by the 2-man teams competing in the 10th Annual Int'l Sniper Competition, which was held at Ft. Benning, Ga. Both shooters on the winning team used 7.62 OBRs - one was a 20", and the other a 16" (I believe).

I went through the same dilemma and walked away with the LMT MWS. One of my criteria was that it be something battle proven and military grade, rather than hobby grade.

Solid-as-a-rock monolithic upper, ambidextrous lower, ingenious enhanced bolt group design, a true quick change barrel system with barrels that are actually available, ability to take SR25 pattern mags, out-of-the-box accuracy of 1.5 MOA or better (averaging 5 shot+ groups) with a 16" chrome lined barrel, and a company backing it that is established and known for unwavering quality as well as customer service.

The LMT was selected by the Brits as their DMR back in 2009. It beat out the HK 417 and SCAR17 in their testing. A big part of their performance requirement was the rifle's performance with standard ball as well as match loads. They have had great success with these guns on the battlefield, with confirmed kills at 1k meters and greater. While we can debate which system is the best, the LMT is no slouch, and it finds itself among the best in modern .308 rifle platforms.

There's two downsides to this system. The first one is the cost; I think I paid ~$2300 for the rifle itself "on sale." The second is the weight; this is the result of the quick change barrel design that employs the use of a huge barrel extension, a factor which also lends itself to inherent accuracy. There are newer lightweight barrels available, but I don't think there's a lot of data on them right now. I have an 18" SS barrel arriving today, and then I'll be sending off my 16" CL barrel for a severe re-profiling job.

boricua9mm said:

The second is the weight; this is the result of the quick change barrel design that employs the use of a huge barrel extension, a factor which also lends itself to inherent accuracy. There are newer lightweight barrels available, but I don't think there's a lot of data on them right now.

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I agree that weight is higher than ideal, but it's not absurd. The base gun with the rail you've got weighs about what an M1 does and is carried by troops who on average have much greater stature than the depression kids toting the M1.

There's also the option of the keymod rail, which takes about a half pound out of the gun. I own the full rail version like you, but I've shot the keymod rail, and I think I prefer it.

Originally Posted by boricua9mm
The second is the weight; this is the result of the quick change barrel design that employs the use of a huge barrel extension, a factor which also lends itself to inherent accuracy. There are newer lightweight barrels available, but I don't think there's a lot of data on them right now.

Click to expand...

I agree that weight is higher than ideal, but it's not absurd. The base gun with the rail you've got weighs about what an M1 does and is carried by troops who on average have much greater stature than the depression kids toting the M1.

Click to expand...

Agree with Boricua's previous write-up, but wanted to add that I've got the LM8, supposedly LMT's light(er)-weight variant of the MWS. Called the "slickside" model, it omits the rails of the MWS at 3, 6, and 9-o'clock.

Both the MWS and the LM8 are certainly top notch specimens for anyone seriously considering a "30-cal AR" and wanting, as Boricua correctly put it, a durable, military-grade 7.62, as opposed to an infrequently-shot "hobby" rifle.

When run irons only, the LM8 isn't too bad to hump, but when you add a high quality 30mm scope, mount, sling and bipod for longer-range work, what minimal weight-savings was gained by omitting the rails is way more than gained back.

Mine also runs the CTR with LaRue's RISR cheekpiece which is the lightest stock for precision shooting I'd run; other MWS/LM8 owners run Magpul's heavy PRS stock, which of course just adds more weight.

Pic below shows my LM8 with the 18" SS SPR barrel installed, which is heavier than my 16" C/L tube. The Harris bipod, wearing an ADM rail mount, wasn't attached yet ... Mine runs Geissele's SSA-E. Just F.Y.I. ...

LMT 7.62 LM8.